Applying regs retrospectively

[Guest125]

I know there is a lot out there who say that installations that were installed to a earlier regulation do not have to be brought up to the current if it was designed and installed to an earlier version.

My issue with this is:

1) You would have to know exactly when the installation was designed and completed along with any alterations over the years. Very unlikely in my opinion without a clear paper trail of certs and reports and would be a guess at best.

2) You would need to have access to every version of the regs and all amendments to see when (example) reg 123.4.5 came into force. Say 123.4.5 was not in the 15th 1st amendment but was in the 3rd amendment. Even then you could not be sure if it was under a different reg number in other regs books.

I suppose my question is would it not be easier to advise customers on bringing their installation unto current standards no matter how uncomfortable this may seem. Without specifics I would imagine most issues would only be C3 anyway so would still warrant a 'satisfactory" assessment.

Just my interpretation but I am interested how others can ascertain points 1 & 2 above if they state regulations cannot be back dated?

Discuss.

 

[spark 68]

Agreed - How would you answer points 1 & 2 above?

I have various regs books and some AMDs of the regs, OSGs etc. going back to the 15th ;-) anything much older than this probably will need updating by now

 

[trev]

I do not listen to sparks that say "this is how it is done' without backing it up.

Try reading up on the subject and you might see that I'm right, just like the bit about socket heights on rewires.
However, as you say above. There are lots of people on here that I don't want to listen to and they're all on my ignore list. You just joined it.

 

[Andy78]

UKESrail

You seem to think that your points 1 and 2 from your OP need to be justified in order for the regs not to be applied retrospectively. They don't.

An EICR is an asessment of the installation in it's current state with regards to electrical safety and suitability for continued use. You do not need to know the edition of the regs the installation was designed to in order to do this.

With regards to the application of the regs not being retrospective being a fact, then I can confirm it is a fact. So can BS7671 if you look in the introduction.

 

[Guest125]

to be fair to OP, though, alterations could have been made to a 15th ed. installation after the introduction of 16th. think it's time to revert to the 15th. 4mm gn/y cable attached to the bog chain and the metal frame windows.

Thanks. I think you understand where I am coming from?

 

[SPARTYKUS]

We all give it our best guess but it is just this. And could be easily within a 10 year window in which 3 amendments could have been released. So how could you answer questions 1 & 2 in the OP?

simple answer is I don't need to know if it was falsely installed to the wrong version of the regs at the time it was installed... You're getting carried away.

You don't need to go around assuming everything is a lie, even if it is, you didn't do it!!

you're getting carried away.

In fact I don't see the point of this thread its a bit silly.

 

[spark 68]

I find you can tell fairly quickly on an EICR if there has been alterations, usually the older wiring although installed to an earlier edition is usually spot on and in good condition, installed properly with usually good quality components, it is the additions that are shyte and rarely comply to any known standard

 

[Guest125]

Try reading up on the subject and you might see that I'm right, just like the bit about socket heights on rewires.
However, as you say above. There are lots of people on here that I don't want to listen to and they're all on my ignore list. You just joined it.

I never said that you were not correct. I just wanted some evidence. If you cannot provide it then I would ignore it too.

 

[Andy78]

I never said that you were not correct. I just wanted some evidence. If you cannot provide it then I would ignore it too.

See my post #18 for where to get evidence for this.

 

[Guest125]

simple answer is I don't need to know if it was falsely installed to the wrong version of the regs at the time it was installed... You're getting carried away.

You don't need to go around assuming everything is a lie, even if it is, you didn't do it!!

you're getting carried away.

In fact I don't see the point of this thread its a bit silly.

You don't follow me. Say you guess an installation date of between 1985 - 1995. There are quite a few changes in that time. How can you be sure what version of the regs this installation is installed to?

 

[Guest125]

UKESrail

You seem to think that your points 1 and 2 from your OP need to be justified in order for the regs not to be applied retrospectively. They don't.

An EICR is an asessment of the installation in it's current state with regards to electrical safety and suitability for continued use. You do not need to know the edition of the regs the installation was designed to in order to do this.

With regards to the application of the regs not being retrospective being a fact, then I can confirm it is a fact. So can BS7671 if you look in the introduction.

No I do not. What I am saying is you need to be very sure of when the installation was installed and also the date of the regs to be sure if the installation was installed correctly or not. If you see a 2.5mm main earth bond on the water. How do you know if that was not an installation done in 1970 (correctly) or 1980 (incorrectly)? Dates are approximate.

 

[spark 68]

Well 2.5mm would be post-metrication, 1970 you say ?

 

[Guest125]

Well 2.5mm would be post-metrication, 1970 you say ?

Showing you age - and mine ;-)

 

[HandySparks]

No I do not. What I am saying is you need to be very sure of when the installation was installed and also the date of the regs to be sure if the installation was installed correctly or not. If you see a 2.5mm main earth bond on the water. How do you know if that was not an installation done in 1970 (correctly) or 1980 (incorrectly)? Dates are approximate.

In compiling an EICR, what matters is not whether is was 'correct' or 'incorrect' to the regs at the time, it's whether, in your professional opinion, it's acceptably safe now.

If you're producing an EIC for work you've just done then, of course, compliance with the regs applicable at the time is important.

 

[spark 68]

Showing you age - and mine ;-)

I couldn't possibly comment

 

[Andy78]

No I do not. What I am saying is you need to be very sure of when the installation was installed and also the date of the regs to be sure if the installation was installed correctly or not. If you see a 2.5mm main earth bond on the water. How do you know if that was not an installation done in 1970 (correctly) or 1980 (incorrectly)? Dates are approximate.

No you don't. I'm sorry but all the answers to your misguided perspective have been given in this thread. It's like you are not reading the responses. You need to research the fundamental requirements of EICR if you are still confused.