Are you happy with the cost of MCS registration

[Cider]

Mike.

I am a one man band-small business.
I have been in the trade 27 years.
MCS the way I see it is about accountability.
That is how things are these days.
I have my mcs inspection monday.
After my business has been inspected any non-conformitys will be noted and its up to me to correct them.
Thats how it is. It will be my fault, my problem, as everything required is there in black and white for anyone to find and read.
It is an extremely big thing for a small business to embark on, but the choice was mine to make, like was yours.
If I jack it in like, like you did it wont be the fault of MCS but mine.
I will be accountable.
I understand you are extremely competant at your job, but that is not a good enough reason to get MCS.
Those companies who are MCS but doing crap jobs will not last, as within their quality system they are stateing how they will operate.
If customers accept poor work and pay someone else to sort it that is their mistake.
If they take legal action they will win every time, hands down.
Thats what mcs is about, having a QMS system to be accountable.

cider

 

[Graeme Harrold]

Im a 1 man band, and Im quite happy in principle with the set up costs, however its the associated registrations that get me.....Gemserve, REAL, and the way MCS is not combined with Part P. The speed at which the whole process crawls along is frustrating too.

Paperwork, no problems with that either, because it has tightened up my business procedures and the manner in which I operate overall. I have applied the QMS to my whole business and not just the solar side. Customers are quite impressed that their money for deposits now bounces through a client account, I have a better relationship with suppliers, and my whole business presence has been lifted since passing the MCS assessment, with ease I may add. The only point I would like changing is the need to acknowledge the way a small company operates in relation to MCS i.e. Im not likely to have a meeting with myself or complete impartial audits by myself.

Im not worried so much about cowboy installers, just the big nationals who bend the rules and get away with it.

 

[Apollo]

Hi Everyone,

Whilst I am not yet MCS registered and am about 12 months off from being. I hear a lot of people saying of the massive costs to start MCS registration, some even quoting 20k+. Can someone please enlighten us to the costs involved because I have looked into this and there must be hidden cost after certain stages as I get no where near such inflated costs.

I understand paperwork is lengthy, however this is not a cost as such as you do this. IHMO!!!

Please someone put some ball park figures down for MCS registration only!!!!

Many Thanks,

 

[Cider]

Look into it, allow for everything you can think of.

Then times it by 4.

PS I think in 12 months the boat may have well and trully sailed and docked at the other side

 

[Apollo]

Renewables is here to stay! The boat will not be leaving any time soon!

I understand and have thought of everything I can but why times it by 4?????

 

[Graeme Harrold]

Cash flow is the main crippling factor for small business. You need to have a tidy reserve in the bank to buy the kit.

Training
Insurance
Tools and test kit
Competant persons scheme
Time taken to prepare and get your QMS together
MCS Registration
Gemserve registration
REAL Registration
Marketing
Cost of your 1st job - usually your own property

SO yes the costs quickly mount up and can quickly run away from you, and that list is probably not complete......

 

[unguided1]

Mike.

I am a one man band-small business.
I have been in the trade 27 years.
MCS the way I see it is about accountability.
That is how things are these days.
I have my mcs inspection monday.
After my business has been inspected any non-conformitys will be noted and its up to me to correct them.
Thats how it is. It will be my fault, my problem, as everything required is there in black and white for anyone to find and read.
It is an extremely big thing for a small business to embark on, but the choice was mine to make, like was yours.
If I jack it in like, like you did it wont be the fault of MCS but mine.
I will be accountable.
I understand you are extremely competant at your job, but that is not a good enough reason to get MCS.
Those companies who are MCS but doing crap jobs will not last, as within their quality system they are stateing how they will operate.
If customers accept poor work and pay someone else to sort it that is their mistake.
If they take legal action they will win every time, hands down.
Thats what mcs is about, having a QMS system to be accountable.

cider

Hi Cider

I am glad that for you that you have found that the MCS works for yourself and your business, I have no idea how much a Sparky has to pay per year to be a member of a regulatory body or how many regulatory bodies they may have to join, but in the plumbing and heating industry for me as a one man band if I want to install all the things that I am trained to install then I have to be a member fo Gas Safe for gas, Oftec for Oil, Heatas for solid fuel and MCS for renewables, the physical cost alone makes being a member of each organisation prohibitive, then there is the fact that I am a heating engineer, and I chose my chosen profession because I enjoy being out working not sat in an office filling out forms and doing paperwork, so please excuse me if I carry on protesting, and If anyone is fed up with the amount of rediculous beurocracy that has been creeping into our industries then please comment on the blog that was mentioned in the original post

 

[Cider]

If I wanted to be a pilot I would have to learn to fly getting countless hours of training, pass rigorous tests and exams involving lots of paper work then get more hours of training etc etc.
Each time I take to the air I take system checks and complete more paper work.
Each time I land the same.
I maybe then be able to fly a small plane.
If I want to fly a jumbo full of passangers I would have to take further test, exams, paperwork etc.
If it was beyond my ability or had not the finances to do it what would i do?
Try and change the rules to suit me?
Or accept I should stick to the smaller aircraft.

 

[unguided1]

So the fact that I am already qualified to do what I am doing which I have been doing for 30 years with no problem, I should now go and join the unemployed because I do not want to be part of the beurocratic system that the government is forcing me to do and is completely irrelevent to what I do, Also I am being forced to keep this paperwork for over 6 years who is funding the storage me, thank you for your suggestion cider but I respect your views but I for one will still campaign against the cost and the beuarocrocy and I am still not a pilot either

 

[Cider]

If you know the mcs and real codes, what parts should be scrapped?
Keeping records, so when mrs smiths panels are not working after 5 years and her records are lost, no one has a clue whats installed or what the commissioning readinds were?
The health and safety risk assessments, so people start cutting corners?
The method statement so if a contractor doeas a shoddy job he can not be held accountable.
The hand over pack so there is information missing for the customer from the beginning.
Failing to check up to see if all documents are current so calcs are done on wrong information?

Please be more specific as to what you would scrap.

If you had passed your mcs inspection would you still be on your soap box?

Put your energy into learning on what you failed and get reassessed.

Sorry!

 

[Worcester]

@Cider, I popped over to the UKPlumbersforums.co.uk and it seems that unguided1 is not alone in his community with his position.

All the plumbers seem to have a major gripe on at the moment about regulation generally and MCS in particular, hence the reason for him starting this thread here.

 

[unguided1]

If you know the mcs and real codes, what parts should be scrapped?
Keeping records, so when mrs smiths panels are not working after 5 years and her records are lost, no one has a clue whats installed or what the commissioning readinds were?
The health and safety risk assessments, so people start cutting corners?
The method statement so if a contractor doeas a shoddy job he can not be held accountable.
The hand over pack so there is information missing for the customer from the beginning.
Failing to check up to see if all documents are current so calcs are done on wrong information?

Please be more specific as to what you would scrap.

If you had passed your mcs inspection would you still be on your soap box?

Put your energy into learning on what you failed and get reassessed.

Sorry!

Hi Cider

I am not saying scrap the whole thing but it should at least be made easier and cheaper for small businesses or possibly some form of exemption, the other thing is the fact that there are many different schemes and organisations that we are forced to be members of and now there is another one

 

[sjhall]

Hi Unguided,

I'm with you on the costs, its a joke for your average 1 man band , but this is what the big boys want, and if you are a small business / 1 man band that has managed to get your MCS,(well done) why would you want the doors opening to make entry easier and competition more fierce? that's what part P has done to the Electrical industry and its destroying it.
I think the guys who have gone through the process are happy to roll with it now they are in the club, and the guys on the sidelines ( like me ) would like to see the entry procedure simplified.

I'm sure there is a middle ground, were and what it is, I'm not too sure as such , but they could start with combining some of the costs into one full package rather than having to pay so many governing bodies.

Cheer

Ste

 

[unguided1]

Hi ste

thank you for your comments sometimes I have a struggle getting across what I am actually trying to say, Also not being an electrician I do not know or understand how many reugualtory bodies you have to be a member of or how much it costs you guys a year, but I do know and understand that the cowboys are able to undercut us all because they know that if they get caught they will if at worst get a small slap on the wrist and a light fine and its usually only by chance that cowboys are caught and prosecuted as these bodies that we pay for do not police the industry properly

 

[Worcester]

Actually we would have spent whatever was nescessary, and it's not about closing the doors once we're in.

Some of the questions raised both on this forum and the UKPlumbersForums are incredibly scary considering what people are doing.

We set ourselves up as professional organisation providing renewables solutions, and it was my own personal money that has now funded getting 3 companies through MCS.

There are multiple skills involved in these projects, structural engineering, thermodynamics, hydraulics, meteorlogy, as well as plumbing and electrical skills.

We don't just employ our own people, we also act as an umbrella for others that want work in this area, and don;t want to go through the MCS process, - we handle all that. They still run their own businesses with their own customers, and take the lead on their own jobs - so long as they have done the appropriate training in heat pump / solar PV / solar thermal etc. All of our staff are qualified appropriately, and it gives them the ability to have access to the extra skills that they need.

We are NOT a sales led company, we are a professional company providing solutions, using local resources, and are not competing with them - we are working with and facilitating them.

Perhaps, like we did you could form a local consortium with a single umbrella organisation, it is perfectly allowed for under the MCS scheme, we are not distorting it and we don;t work around it, we work with it, to everyone's benefit.

We have one project that is just kicking off for example that uses, groundsource, solar thermal AND solar PV, from what was just a groundsource enquiry - everyone benefits.

There are times when being your own boss and trying to be all things to all people is the wrong approach, and with the complexities of some of the technology in this area, it may be time to look at how you work.