Armoured cable into building below ground - how should hole have been ducted / sealed | on ElectriciansForums

Discuss Armoured cable into building below ground - how should hole have been ducted / sealed in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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"Hello All",

I am trying to find out some information to give to a Friend who is investigating the cause of Damp in his Home`s wall and has seen that his neighbours have Armoured cables entering their building through just a Hole / `Slot` in the Brickwork under ground level [Not visible at present but this is known] and wondered if the Hole in the Brickwork could be the entry point for the Damp to travel along the wall and then up into the Party wall into His property.


These Armoured cables are the Electricity supplies to 2 Flats - from the Meters / Main Fuses which are installed in an External Meter box to the Consumer Unit within each Flat - the cables run down the wall into the ground and bend through a Hole `Slot` into the Building.


I happen to know / remember that no Ducting was used through the Hole / `Slot` in the Brickwork where the cables enter the other building and the Hole / `Slot` was never made good before the trench for the new Electricity supply was filled in - as I was working at my Friends Home installing a Heating system when these cables were installed next door - I remember seeing how the Cables were installed and thinking that they should have been Ducted through the wall with the Ducting sealed at least externally.

At the time I remember that the bends on the Armoured cable would not have allowed any form of Ducting to be installed which would have run the full thickness of the Wall - I assumed that this is why none was installed.


Now that I have been asked by my Friend for advice on whether this Hole below the ground could be causing the Damp to permeate along the walls and up into the Party wall I would like to be able to let my Friend / his Neighbours know what should have been done when the Armoured cables were installed through the wall - in terms of a Duct an sealing the Duct to prevent the ingress of Water from the ground both into the Brickwork and through the Duct - ?

I am sceptical that this is the cause of the Damp in His next door property because of the amount of time that has elapsed [Years] before this Damp problem exhibited itself - but He has recently spent a fair bit of Money on Professional Damp treatments of the Walls in the area of the Damp and adjacent to it which has not solved the problem.

The Hole adjacent to the Cable entry point has not been excavated yet so I cannot post any Photos but I can still visualise what was done when they were installed.



I would like to be able to let Him know exactly what should have been done - or what can now be done to try and rule out or solve the Damp problem by Sealing the underground entry point of these Armoured cables into next doors Building - obviously ideally by being able to just Seal up the Hole / `Slot` with something that will NOT affect the Armoured cable sheathing - is this possible ?

Unfortunately there would be no way to correctly install any Duct
around the Cables because of the way that they bend through the `Slot` / Hole in the Brickwork.

It is not going to be an option for an Electrician to disconnect these cables in order for them to be bent to allow a Duct to be installed [even IF there is enough slack within the Ground Floor Flat to pull back enough cable ?] because the People who now own the Flats are Pensioners who definitely cannot afford to pay for that.

As You can imagine my Friend does not want to pay for anything more than carefully digging a Hole adjacent the wall / Cable entry point and hopefully using something to Seal the Hole `Slot` in the Brickwork - which He can do Himself - will that be possible ?

I did not want to tell Him to just make good with Prompt Cement / Waterproof Cement or even Sand & Cement Mortar in case this would be corrosive to the exterior sheathing of the Armoured cable - ?

Obviously because the Hole is under ground whatever is used would have to be Waterproof.


I would really appreciate your Help and Advice on this Please.


Regards,


Chris
 
Re: Armoured cable into building below ground - how should hole have been ducted / se

Sounds suspicious! Are you sure it wasn't you who ran the cables in the first place? :)

How deep does it go? Can you not just dig it up and have a look as there is no other way of knowing and then block the hole up anyway?

If you are concerned about the cement having a detrimental effect on the cable which afaik it doesn't although i wouldn't go putting armoureds in cement myself can you not cut some ducting and just slip it over the armoured where they enter the building so the cement doesnt actually contact the cable then once the cement has set around the duct bang abit of expanding foam in the small area around the duct?

This is just my 2 pence worth i don't have a massive amount of experience in the matter, but hey it may help you never know.
 
Re: Armoured cable into building below ground - how should hole have been ducted / se

Sounds suspicious! Are you sure it wasn't you who ran the cables in the first place? :)

How deep does it go? Can you not just dig it up and have a look as there is no other way of knowing and then block the hole up anyway?

If you are concerned about the cement having a detrimental effect on the cable which afaik it doesn't although i wouldn't go putting armoureds in cement myself can you not cut some ducting and just slip it over the armoured where they enter the building so the cement doesnt actually contact the cable then once the cement has set around the duct bang abit of expanding foam in the small area around the duct?

This is just my 2 pence worth i don't have a massive amount of experience in the matter, but hey it may help you never know.


"Hello Tidy Max",

Thanks for your reply.


I can assure You that other `Senior Members` on here who know that I am a Heating Engineer and that I am ONLY active on the Forum to help with Heating and Plumbing questions [which come up ocassionally in Electrical threads] as a `Pay Back` to Members for advice that I received over 2 Years ago will NOT be `Suspicious` that I am a Electrical Trainee or worse who has installed these Armoured cables Himself.

IF You are interested to see this for yourself please look at my previous posts - I am sure that will establish my `Credentials`.

Regarding Your points on what to do to rectify the situation - PLEASE read my post again - I have included descriptions of exactly why a Duct cannot be retro fitted - so therefore cannot then be sealed around.

Regards,


Chris
 
Re: Armoured cable into building below ground - how should hole have been ducted / se

Hello Chris,

I'm taking your initial post as, your friend is suspecting 'Rising Damp'?
I am yet to be convinced 100% that it really exists!
As you say, this dampness has taken years to manifest itself, I'd be looking for alternative sources for it.
 
Re: Armoured cable into building below ground - how should hole have been ducted / se

I'd finish the digging to visually inspect the wall penetration area. If it looks suspect then open up a hole large enough to see if there's signs of damp in the cavity or on the inner skin. If it doesn't look suspect I'd apply a few coats of bitumen sealer to the penetration area and look elsewhere for the dam problem.
 
Re: Armoured cable into building below ground - how should hole have been ducted / se

Hello Chris,

I'm taking your initial post as, your friend is suspecting 'Rising Damp'?
I am yet to be convinced 100% that it really exists!
As you say, this dampness has taken years to manifest itself, I'd be looking for alternative sources for it.


"Hello Archy Styrigg",

Thanks for your reply.

My Friend thinks that the Damp MAY be coming from the underground Hole that the cables are going through in the Brickwork of His next door Neighbours property - permeating along their wall about 800mm and then up into the Party wall on His side only - I find this doubtfull although I supppose it is not impossible.

My Friend remembered that I had commented at the time of the installation of the Armoured cables that I THOUGHT they should NOT be entering the Building next door without being run in a Duct which was then sealed.

Basically He wanted to know if He can just Seal up the Hole `Slot` with Waterproof Cement ?

I wanted to ASK on here as I wondered if this would be corrosive to the Armoured cables external sheathing ?

Would there be any other suitable material to Waterproof Seal the Hole - I think that I have seen an Epoxy type filler used for sealing around Armoured cables above ground on Industrial Electrical Installations - But that may NOT have been Waterproof ?

Because Of what I described in my original Post there is not really a suitable alternative to just being able to Waterproof Sealing of the Hole - I think that He intends to also have some Chemical Damp Proof Course injected around the Sealed Hole.

Regards,


Chris
 
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Re: Armoured cable into building below ground - how should hole have been ducted / se

I'd finish the digging to visually inspect the wall penetration area. If it looks suspect then open up a hole large enough to see if there's signs of damp in the cavity or on the inner skin. If it doesn't look suspect I'd apply a few coats of bitumen sealer to the penetration area and look elsewhere for the dam problem.

"Hello Marvo",

Thanks for your reply.

Although obviously I would like to be able to advise my Friend on any way to solve the Damp problem - He will be having the `Professional` Damp Treatment Company advising Him on treating whatever can be found possibly relating to this Hole / `Slot` in the underground Brickwork.

I need to be able to advise Him on IF the Hole can be Sealed with an appropriate product which will not be detrimental to the Armoured cable`s sheathing.


The `Professional` Damp Treatment Company will NEVER concede that this Hole is NOT causing the Damp problem until it is Sealed up - and they have `Injected` Liquid DPC Chemical around the Hole.

The Walls in question are Solid and there is no sign of Damp in the Ground Floor Flat where the Cables enter that Building - Yet my Friend and the Damp Treatment `Professionals` think that the Damp is permetaing from this Hole.


Regards,


Chris
 
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Re: Armoured cable into building below ground - how should hole have been ducted / se

Is the damp only on his side of a cavity wall then and not on the persons who he shares this wall with? What state is the roof and guttering in? Does the cable enter below the DPC assuming there is one?
 
Re: Armoured cable into building below ground - how should hole have been ducted / se

Is the damp only on his side of a cavity wall then and not on the persons who he shares this wall with? What state is the roof and guttering in? Does the cable enter below the DPC assuming there is one?


"Hello derek",

Thanks for your reply.

The Walls to both properties are Solid - the Damp is in the corner of the Party Wall / External Wall - internally.

There is no sign of Water pentration from outside - the Brickwork is in good condition and there is no standing water areas at ground level - or Guttering problems.


There has been a `Liquid Damp Proof Course` injected across the whole of the Front of the House and below the Floor level into the Party Wall for about 2 Metres from the internal corner of the room [Corner to Fire Breast] - there was no DPC when these properties were built - approx 1920.

Thje Armoured cables [2 Of] do enter below what would normally be the DPC level in the other Building [next door] - but from what I have seen there is NOT a DPC on that Building - or on my Friends House before He had one `Injected`.

Regards,

Chris
 
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Re: Armoured cable into building below ground - how should hole have been ducted / se

Could it be a condensation/wall not breathing problem?
Throwing ideas out at random here!
A friend of friend of mine has got a damp problem; someone said pointing, pointing done, no change; guttering, checked out clear, no change; only thing left is the loft.
Trouble is, no access, someone has plastered over the access hatch!!!!!!!
 
Re: Armoured cable into building below ground - how should hole have been ducted / se

For filling the hole, I can't see a problem with an ordinary sand/cement mortar mix. The armoured cable will almost certainly have a PVC sheath, so no problem. Whatever you do, don't fill the hole with expanding foam, as it's a good thermal insulator, which will affect the current carrying capacity of the cables.
 
Re: Armoured cable into building below ground - how should hole have been ducted / se

I won't be checking up on you as it makes no difference to me :) and because you sound genuine :)

I did read the entire post prior to initially replying and but i am struggling to imagine a situation where you can't fit any ducting at all around, if there is a bend/bends why not get some flexible ducting as its only to stop the concrete touching the sheath? How deep would the concrete be, wouldn't even a foot of ducting suffice?

I am sticking with having to dig it up to have a look, there's noway of knowing if the damp is coming from there without digging it up really!

Good luck
 
Re: Armoured cable into building below ground - how should hole have been ducted / se

Could it be a condensation/wall not breathing problem?
Throwing ideas out at random here!
A friend of friend of mine has got a damp problem; someone said pointing, pointing done, no change; guttering, checked out clear, no change; only thing left is the loft.
Trouble is, no access, someone has plastered over the access hatch!!!!!!!


"Hello again Archy Styrigg",

Thanks for the suggestion - it is definitely Damp that is coming from below Floor level at the internal corner of the room - the `junction` of the External and the Party walls.


I have experienced what You described about condensation a few times in the past - solved by correct Ventilation and Heating of the premises.

I need to be able to find the answer to HOW the Hole can be Waterproofed.

Regards,

Chris
 
Re: Armoured cable into building below ground - how should hole have been ducted / se

I may be missing something here, but could you not fill around the cable with silicon? I may be on the wrong track - it's difficult to picture. Can you post a photo? Daz
 

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