Attic light off fire alarm?

[mattgriff88]

Hi,

At the moment I have 2 x led strip lights up my attic.
They are attached to a plug and I have to plug it in to one of the sockets in my bedroom. It works just a bit of a pain everytime I need to go in to the attic.

I want to put a switch up the attic so I can use this instead. I have pulled some of the insulation up and found the wire that goes in to the fire alarm. Would I be able to get power from this and run to a switch to operate the lights?

Picture of the wiring for the fire alarm.

 

[westward10]

That isn't safe those unenclosed connectors, are they not interlinked?

 

[mattgriff88]

That isn't safe those unenclosed connectors, are they not interlinked?

No. I pulled the insulation up and this is how I found them. Guessing they should be in a junction box. Haven't long bought the house.

 

[westward10]

It isn't safe and I suspect if there are more they will be the same, can you show a pic of the detector?
Is it a brand new house?

 

[mattgriff88]

It isn't safe and I suspect if there are more they will be the same, can you show a pic of the detector?
Is it a brand new house?

House is 10 years old. I will get a pic of the detector when I'm back there tomorrow.

That's the one upstairs. There is another down stairs.

I will get a junction box in the morning.
Something like this will do the job I'm guessing?

 

[westward10]

The cable needs wiring direct those wires should not be exposed unless the type of detector does not permit that. The disconnected black is the interlink which sets the other off should one activate at present it does nothing.

 

[mattgriff88]

The cable needs wiring direct those wires should not be exposed unless the type of detector does not permit that. The disconnected black is the interlink which sets the other off should one activate at present it does nothing.

I think the wires were coming directly out of the alarm but will double check tomorrow.

 

[littlespark]

Some alarms require a back box to have any connections like this.... some are wired directly into the detector itself.

To find this in a 10 year old house is troubling.... If its newly purchased, can you ask the vendor or estate agent to have an EICR done.

This might not be the only problem

 

[mickegh]

I was posting that but wasn't sure

Some have a separate back box and it's often omitted but those wires from detector look like they could be solid

Maybe they're fine-stranded tinned enabling them to be shoved into the wago,that's the way they're usually supplied anyhow

 

[littlespark]

looks like a square hole cut in the plasterboard ceiling.... but no box??

Whatever... it needs fixed.



To the OP question, yes you can come off the detector, if the detector already comes off the lighting circuit.

It would need to be RCD protected.... which it might already be

 

[mattgriff88]

Some alarms require a back box to have any connections like this.... some are wired directly into the detector itself.

To find this in a 10 year old house is troubling.... If its newly purchased, can you ask the vendor or estate agent to have an EICR done.

This might not be the only problem

Yeah we had an EICR. Everything was fine except a couple of downlights needed changing because they wasn't fire rated. We had these changed straight away.

 

[mattgriff88]

looks like a square hole cut in the plasterboard ceiling.... but no box??

Whatever... it needs fixed.



To the OP question, yes you can come off the detector, if the detector already comes off the lighting circuit.

It would need to be RCD protected.... which it might already be

Thanks

 

[UNG]

looks like a square hole cut in the plasterboard ceiling.... but no box??

Not seeing the square hole, it looks like a hole punched in the plasterboard alongside the joist that the detector is fixed to

Only practical way to fix that would be to move the detector over slightly onto a circular dry lining box

 

[westward10]

Sort the detectors first we can advise when we see pics but if they have been in situ for 10 years they should be replaced. If they are on a dedicated circuit I would not be connecting lighting from them.

 

[mattgriff88]

Sort the detectors first we can advise when we see pics but if they have been in situ for 10 years they should be replaced. If they are on a dedicated circuit I would not be connecting lighting from them.

I don't think the alarm is 10 years old to be honest. Looks quite new. Think it was Nest or something like that. Guessing the previous owner had it changed at some point.

The fire alarms do have a separate RCD switch on the consumer unit as I remember seeing it when we bought the house. Guessing it's a no go then. Can I ask what is the reason for this please.

Thanks

 

[mattgriff88]

This is it. Found a picture on amazon. It has a black plug that clips in to the top of the alarm and leaves 2 wires.

 

[littlespark]

That explains the unused black wire of the 3C&E.... Nest detectors use radio or wifi to communicate with each other.

 

[mickegh]

Seems to be the type that's supplied with a flat base in picture to secure the alarm ?

Then there's an additional deep base to terminate the fixed wiring into which hasn't been fitted hwre

 

[mattgriff88]

Seems to be the type that's supplied with a flat base in picture to secure the alarm ?

Then there's an additional deep base to terminate the fixed wiring into which hasn't been fitted hwre

I can't see anything on Google about an additional deep base. Where are you seeing that too? Hopefully I can get a spare from somewhere if that is the case.

Back to the light and getting the power off the fire alarm circuit. Am I right in saying the only reason not to do this is because if the light trips it will trip the fire alarm possibly without me knowing until I go to switch the light on again?

 

[mickegh]

I can't see anything on Google about an additional deep base. Where are you seeing that too? Hopefully I can get a spare from somewhere if that is the case.

Back to the light and getting the power off the fire alarm circuit. Am I right in saying the only reason not to do this is because if the light trips it will trip the fire alarm possibly without me knowing until I go to switch the light on again?

Presumably maintenance or a local outage you're taking out lights and alarms at same time and vice-versa

Also it's better electrical design to have lights and alarms separate

Notwithstanding the fact that alarms and lights may be "bunched" at an mcb. This has some advantage that the homeowner will not easily disable alarms as lights will be affected .Also the electrician can more easily separate the alarms and lights at MCB when troubleshooting etc .

On the connection base .As another poster said some have a separate connection base.

Nor familiar with the nest but it would seem strange if they were designed so that the single-insulated cabling was to be exposed in attic. It wouldn't be satisfactory even with an enclosure for the wagos

 

[UNG]

Do the Google Nest detectors actually comply with the requirements of the building regs with regard to the interconnectivity needing a WiFi connection
Most if not all the Google detectors I have seen say they are standalone

 

[Rockingit]

Do the Google Nest detectors actually comply with the requirements of the building regs with regard to the interconnectivity needing a WiFi connection
Most if not all the Google detectors I have seen say they are standalone

They don't use wifi as the interconnect, they use an RF network of their own (think it's bluetooth based with extra beans) and as they have internal battery backup then power can drop and they still work. They use wifi to talk to the outside world, yes, but not as part of the safety system.

 

[Risteard]

Do the Google Nest detectors actually comply with the requirements of the building regs with regard to the interconnectivity needing a WiFi connection
Most if not all the Google detectors I have seen say they are standalone

They have no heat detector which is a problem.

 

[Rockingit]

They have no heat detector which is a problem.

They're multi-sensor by default. When you tell one that it's in a kitchen it will use a different algorithm than if you tell it it's in a lounge or a garage. They also have CO detection built-in by default, too.

There's a lot of myths about them simply because a lot of people don't actually understand them and expect them to be the same and behave the same as every other detection system.

 

[littlespark]

I thought it was that their heat detectors were not built to the British Standard which was stated by building regs or some other document.

So they maybe work just as well, in a different way… but without that number, they can’t be accepted for jobs that require planning or building regs

 

[UNG]

I suppose the really big question is how much do you cherish your life to place your personal safety in the hands of Google or one of their devices
Personally I don't even trust them to do an internet search with all their pay per click and dodgy optimisation

 

[mickegh]

They're multi-sensor by default. When you tell one that it's in a kitchen it will use a different algorithm than if you tell it it's in a lounge or a garage. They also have CO detection built-in by default, too.

There's a lot of myths about them simply because a lot of people don't actually understand them and expect them to be the same and behave the same as every other detection system.

When you say different algorithm in a kitchen do you mean they switch from heat+smoke to heat only or something in between

It seems a little unsatisfactory if the householder can change settings on fire alarms

 

[Rockingit]

I suppose the really big question is how much do you cherish your life to place your personal safety in the hands of Google or one of their devices
Personally I don't even trust them to do an internet search with all their pay per click and dodgy optimisation

The core tech was never Google. The core technology was Nest, and it’s sound. They got bought up by Google looking for a way in to the home tech market.