Auger motor - apply load 0 volts?????

[poorfish]

Good evening folks
A great forum full of information. I'm not much of a contributor but love dipping in now and again to search for answers to problems I may have.


Currently I am installing a Viessmann Vitoligno 300p biomass boiler.
Quite straight forward really....lots of plug and play.
The problem I am having is with a feed to an auger.
It's situated abut 15 metres away from the boiler.
At the plug for it at the boiler I get a reading of 230 v.
At 15 m point I can get a reading of 180v.MOTOR NOT CONNECTED.
When I connect to the motor (90w) the voltage then drops to 0v.
When I connect a dedicated 230v supply (by passing boiler) the auger runs.
Have tried changing cable ----no difference .
Have tried different sizes of cable ....slight/no difference.
Have checked polarity s, continuity, ir , broken neutrals ,earths.....nothing.
The veissmann tech guy has been out and can't find the prob.
He even changed part of the control panel.
I'm pretty stumped really.
A few people have mentioned that it seems like an internal relay or something which is not making a good contact.


Any way I really appreciate anyone having a look at this post


All the best


P

 

[Bobster]

Unfortunately without drawings etc, the information you've provided is only enough for a rough guess.

 

[JD6400]

Sounds like a bad neutral connection , you say it is plug and play . Are the pins sitting home good and sound when you connect it ?

 

[poorfish]

Seem to be fine...have changed a plug as well. Though after digging the bones out of it today that was one of our possible conclusions as well. Sorry I have got no drawings tonight.....may be able to get a wiring diagram of board at a later date!!!

 

[snowhead]

Is the 230v at the boiler L-N or L-E or both?
Is the 180v at the end of the cable L-E or L-N or both?

 

[poorfish]

Both
both

 

[HandySparks]

What are you measuring these voltages with?

If you put a small load on the auger supply connector at the boiler, say a Drummond test lamp, what happens?

 

[poorfish]

Tried this with a lead light...it lit up but was faint!!,
using a fluke mains volage tester and a metrel multi

 

[HandySparks]

Tried this with a lead light...it lit up but was faint!!,
using a fluke mains volage tester and a metrel multi

This is clearly a high impedance (but not open circuit) fault in the supply. The best you can do is to test the supply back from the connector towards the origin with a low resistance indicator (like your lead light or a proper test lamp) until you find the fault. There are some kinds of fault where the older technology testers will be better. The voltage tester and the multi aren't going to be of much use here.

 

[poorfish]

So what could be causing the high resistance.....I have tested back to the supply of this connector and have got 230.... But the plugs look fine.....it may still be them I suppose .

 

[micknew]

Tried this with a lead light...it lit up but was faint!!,
using a fluke mains volage tester and a metrel multi

Batteries flat in Fluke tester?

 

[poorfish]

No...cos I can get correct readings on other circuits

 

[HandySparks]

So what could be causing the high resistance.....I have tested back to the supply of this connector and have got 230.... But the plugs look fine.....it may still be them I suppose .

Yes, but was it still 230 with a load on? With this sort of fault, you need to load the circuit (maybe only a little) and then measure voltages.

 

[Knobhead]

Unfortunately without drawings etc, the information you've provided is only enough for a rough guess.

As you say RoB, nothing but guesses, as usual.

Without the relevant information and drawings no one can give the correct answer.

But they can and will guess.

 

[poorfish]

Thanks for trying folks, will try and get more info on today

 

[rmaynard]

is the auger motor run through an inverter?

 

[telectrix]

is the auger motor run through an inverter?

that could be the problem. motor might be better the right way up. LOL.

 

[snowhead]

Is this a brand new boiler and is the installation complete, apart from the hopper auger not working?

If so it seems it must be on a VSD (inverter drive) and the drive is shutting off when it detects the motor connected.

If you've had 230 on the cable to the motor, connected at the boiler end then the problem is in the boiler control.

Definitely a job for Veissmann.

 

[Knobhead]

All the product will fall out if it's inverted.

Nice guess, but no prize.

 

[rmaynard]

Possibly the overload setting isn't set properly?

 

[poorfish]

Motor is not run through an inverter as far as I can see.
its a brand new boiler and the install is complete all working apart from auger.
could the inverter be an internal component that I can not get to?
no overload settings to alter I'm afraid.
certainly looks like a job for the veissmann tech guy whose back tomorrow morning.

 

[bertt]

Hi,
Could you take a picture and view about Label from your motor?
Thank you.

bertt.

 

[poorfish]

photo

heres one

 

[poorfish]

and another

 

[bertt]

Hi,
Thank you for motor label picture

So,
Second picture:
German induction motor:90w/230v,50Hz, mechanical reduction and & thermal protection.
The only protection you got can cut the power. You got probably 2, 3 wires available.
Only if you are an electrician you could follow the next steps.

a. Identify the phase and neutral properly and see the coil resistance.
(Roughly 500-600Ω should be all right). If phase- neutral it is ..MΩ the thermal protection from coil needs to be replaced.
b. Energize external the engine (230v).
c. If you keep the mechanical reduction the speed should be 1/min. - very slow.
Thank you. Good luck.
I look forward hearing from you.

Bertt.