Bad Advice From A "Spark" ???

[Pete E]

I would like an additional electric socket put in the bedroom to do away with the need for an extension cable.

Its not an urgent job and its something I have put off getting done due to the hassle factor of having to lift laminate and floor boards, not to mention emptying the bedroom of furniture to give a Spark access.

While chatting to a friend of a friend who is a self employed builder/spark/plumber, he suggested dropping a spur off the lighting circuit in the attic???? Surely that's a big no-no or is it allowed under certain circumstances?

The only reason I was chatting to this guy is that I have seen some of his work re laminated flooring and it was very good, and I was sounding him out for doing the flooring aspect of the job.. I was therefore a bit taken a back when he suggested dropping the feed down from above...

Also, how do you verify if a person is actually qualified as a Spark? Do they have to register with the local council or anything?

Thanks in advance,

Peter

 

[davesparks]

Sorry for this late comment. I only usually see the week's listing at the end of the week. I didn't see anyone mention FP200 Gold (or similar) fire-proof screened cables. As I understand the rules, as long as the circuit is RCD protected, you have much more flexibility about routing. It is a joy to work with and very usefull for difficult spurs. I have used it for all the wiring in my house extension. The wire is considerably more expensive but it can make a difficult routing job much easier. Comments welcome.

Why on earth would you need fire-performance cable for a general socket circuit? As far as I can see there is no need for fire performance in the cable used, so why sacrifice mechanical strength unnecessarily?
FP200 and similar cables are mechanically weaker than other types of cables which are available, their main characteristic is their fire performance.
If a general wiring cable with a metal shield is required then a BS8436 would be far more suitable.

 

[Pete E]

Gents,

I have been keeping a weather eye on the replies, but the project is on hold for the moment due to ill health in the family..

I would say though what ever an Electrician says, and however well designed/protected the circuit, I would not have it cabled off the lighting circuit. No way, not a chance! Just goes too much against the grain what ever the fine print in the Regs say!

The walls in question are stud walls so I think it will just be a matter of fishing a cable down to a suitable position and then either dropping the other end to an existing socket on the upstairs ring or to the redundant immersion socket.

If feasible I am leaning towards the former, and having it wired as either simple spur or maybe better still incorporating it into the ring. Will discuss further with the Electrician when they quote for the job.

But As I say, its on the back burner now anyway..

Todays "project" was a bit higher priority and was finding why the main beams on my Freelander were intermittent.

The joys of 4 hours tracing 12V circuits in the bl**dy cold...Think its sorted, but Land Rover electrics seem to have a mind of their own!

 

[chris murphy]

Hello Pete E and other Members,

Please be assured that I am NOT `trying to be clever` with the suggestion below - the last thing that I want is for the Electrical Professionals on here to think that I imagine that I have thought of something that they did not.

Pete - this is an example of why Members suggested that You call in an Electrician to look for an alternative cable route [other than lifting the Bedroom flooring] for supplying your Bedroom TV socket outlet:

I would guess that there is somewhere in your Home where cable could be connected to a `Power Ring circuit` - run up into the Loft / Roof Space - across the loft and dropped down within the Bedroom wall [if stud wall] - or run down in a chase to supply the Bedroom TV Socket outlet.

As some Members have suggested an Electrician would be able to see if something like I described is achievable - and You might be able to have the job done without any major disruption of the Bedroom Flooring or Furniture moving.

Chris

EDIT: Pete - I have just noticed that You have posted a reply which mentions running cable to another upstairs socket - I assume you mean running the cable across the Loft - similar to what I described.

I was writing this message when you posted your last reply.

I had to go away from my Computer during writing it and then do this Edit - which is why our `posting times` are quite far apart.

Chris

 

[GB.Kayak]

They only pit him in goal coz he was good on crosses!...............sorry, that was rubbish. I hang my head in shame.lol

... JS, its a good job 'He' gave you a sense of humour!

 

[digger123]

What type of wall is it

In post 70 Pete E mentioned 'fished down behind the plaster board without needing to worry about any cross studding'.

Assuming that the circuit is RCD protected, what exactly is unsafe about it?

I agree, in addition, in this 'scenario' even if there was no RCD protection a short length of earthed flexable metal conduit dropped down the stud bushed on to a metal plug box with a skeleton box attached would also satisfy if the tv was hard wired to a FCU. A hours work TV on the wall, No mess, No disruption.

 

[digger123]

Your 1 A short of a lighting circuit , will it become a diversity issue !

Any idea of just how much quicker you reckon a 5 amp fuse will blow before a 6 amp MCB?
I'm pretty sure a lamp blowing will take out a MCB more times than a tv will.

 

[Toneyz]

without needing to worry about any cross studding'.

It will depend upon the mounting height of the TV and outlet needs to be at horizontal stud noggins are usually at 1200mm in modern wooden stud walls.

 

[digger123]

It will depend upon the mounting height of the TV and outlet needs to be at horizontal stud noggins are usually at 1200mm in modern wooden stud walls.

Only Pete E knows what height, could you let me know what you disliked about my original post?

 

[static zap]

I'm pretty sure a lamp blowing will take out a MCB more times than a tv will.

I'm more worried about the 3A piece of plastic string they call flex these days.
(feels good for 2A with a few frayed strands where it bends at the plugtop !)
( Actually wanted Discrimination - but got my DDs confused / distracted )

 

[Toneyz]

Only Pete E knows what height, could you let me know what you disliked about my original post?

I disliked the installation of installing items of equipment that should be plugged into 13A socket outlets.The circuit has been designed as a lighting circuit it's just a slippery path to poor design. Sorry although it could comply with the regs it didn't sit right with me.

 

[digger123]

I disliked the installation of installing items of equipment that should be plugged into 13A socket outlets.The circuit has been designed as a lighting circuit it's just a slippery path to poor design. Sorry although it could comply with the regs it didn't sit right with me.

Tvs in most countries in Europe do not come with 13 amp plugs as was rightly said in post 65, the main reason, 13 amp plugs are needed is the 32 amp ring, additional protection is required at each socket-plug connection to protect the flexible cord fitted to the plug, hardly needed when the protection for the circuit is 6 amp.
I have completed easily over a 1000 test certs EIC, EICRs for domestic commercial and industrial properties. I have not yet ticked the box 'it didn't sit right with me'.

 

[Toneyz]

Tvs in most countries in Europe do not come with 13 amp plugs as was rightly said in post 65, the main reason, 13 amp plugs are needed is the 32 amp ring, additional protection is required at each socket-plug connection to protect the flexible cord fitted to the plug, hardly needed when the protection for the circuit is 6 amp.
I have completed easily over a 1000 test certs EIC, EICRs for domestic commercial and industrial properties. I have not yet ticked the box 'it didn't sit right with me'.

I never said it was against the regs, for example, switches in zone 3 of a bathroom.

 

[Risteard]

I never said it was against the regs, for example, switches in zone 3 of a bathroom.

There hasn't been a Zone 3 for nearly 10 years!

 

[Toneyz]

There hasn't been a Zone 3 for nearly 10 years!

Outside zone 2 then.

 

[telectrix]

What type of wall is it