Bathroom downlights

[Andysparky]

Hi guys
This may be a silly question, but Ive just started working for myself and I just want to make sure I am on the right side of the law at these early stages of working for myself,
Went to a house yesterday where lights had stopped working a couple of months ago in shower room, on inspection found 2 12v downlights not IP65 rated and 1 above shower cubiclle and still within 2.25m so obviously in zone 1. On inspection found terminals within light fittings melted so obvious reason for failure.
My question is that if I change these downlights as maintenance with like for like (ip65 rated though) do I have to install rcd protection on this lighting circuit now. And just to confirm that if I change to 240v led lights I do have to now RCD protect too comply with regulations.

 

[Rockingit]

Several things all muddled together here, I think.

1) If you're changing like for like, then you don't need to fit an RCD if one isn't there.
2) If you're in a bathroom then there DOES need to be supplementary bonding - UNLESS - there is an RCD protecting the circuits supplying it.
3) Make sure you identify any issues which may have caused the other units to fail - my suggestion is probably steam and condensation if they weren't sealed very well.
4) Using SELV (12v) lights to a certain extent gets you off the hook with IP ratings as long as the transformers themselves are well out of the way.
5) This assumes that you have an existing cpc to the lighting circuit, otherwise then yes you'll need to retrofit an RCD.

 

[12v]

4) Using SELV (12v) lights to a certain extent gets you off the hook with IP ratings as long as the transformers themselves are well out of the way.

I would like to ask a related question // collect thoughts please ;-). The parents were hoping to fit a suspended shade/fitting in a bathroom zone 3 (one that would traditionally be on a simple ceiling-rose with a suspended B22 or E14 socket on some cable). It is not an IP44 or IP65 bathroom fitting. It is conceivable that if something silly were done with the shower with shower door open, it could get sprayed though it isn't really likely.

My personal opinion was that fitting such a non-bathroom-fitting (even in zone 3), could get steamy etc, would not be a good thing, at least, and I suggested instead, the possibility of just getting some cheap 12v LEDs , mounting/cabling them manually inside the fitting, and feeding this back to a properly CE-rated isolating LED-driver outside the bathroom.

Any thoughts on this? The leds (e.g. just open G4-connector-things) wouldn't be IP-rated but are SELV and only in zone-3 and may be able to be covered against splashes to some extent (e.g. add a sheet of transparent plastic).
Would there be any real danger?. Would this likely meet the regulations? Interested in peoples' thoughts? With thanks.

 

[morph]

where is zone 3 ?

 

[12v]

where is zone 3 ?

Outside Zones 0/1/2 I believe, though the specific term zone 3 seems to have been removed from 17th edition regs.

 

[Richard Burns]

Since zone 3 no longer exists there is no case for considering it in terms of meeting the regulations.

Using a B22 lamp holder in a bathroom outside zone 2 is permitted by the regs (normal rules apply), however you would need to consider if it is suitable for the external influences, which I would think it is probably not. However your solution of using another unprotected fitting is the same situation, if you wanted to protect with plastic film then you could do this with the standard fitting as well. Though probably not a good idea in either case as the film could melt if too close to the lamps. Better to buy an IP44 fitting but this is not required by the regs.

 

[MarkieSparkie]

Do not consider modifying a fitting, this is the start of a very slippery slope should there be an electrical fire, injury or fatality at a later date. Use only standard (BS or IEC) approved accessories and fittings suitable for the environmental conditions of that location.

 

[rumjockey2]

Bathroom lighting can be tricky to get right. It may be that you want just one fixture which will provide enough light for the entire room, or you want a few lights spread throughout. Bathroom downlights are perfect in this situation, as they can be placed around the room to provide individual light in a specific area or to give a more balanced effect when all are used together.


manchester handyman,
handyman services,

 

[EoinConway]

SPamela Anderson

Bathroom lighting can be tricky to get right. It may be that you want just one fixture which will provide enough light for the entire room, or you want a few lights spread throughout. Bathroom downlights are perfect in this situation, as they can be placed around the room to provide individual light in a specific area or to give a more balanced effect when all are used together.


manchester handyman,
handyman services,

 

[bugsy]

Did'nt see part p mentioned - special location