Best first step to remedy bypassed domestic RCD box?

[Jay21]

Moved into 60's semi and had work done to renew kitchen, including new induction hob, cooker etc.
3 qualified electricians came to quote and each mentioned that someone had bypassed one of the RCDs (?) in the main box (Branded GET/Schupa), so that circuits to the right of the attached photo are not protected. (marked by yellow arrow)
All wanted to do full PAT and replace box before actually attaching new applicances, which may be fair enough.
But what I don't get is why nobody as yet has suggested simply reinstating the bypassed circuit - and seeing if it trips now that the old appliances (including an old Belling cooker) have been replaced by new ones.
That way I might be able to continue with existing box temporarily (as funds are limited due to having had to do various other works in house).
Any thoughts? Thanks.

 

[telectrix]

Yeah, a lot on today. Just wondering why nobody seems to be able to answer the original question i.e. if the RCD has been bypassed, why not connect it up again and test that circuit?? - given the old cooker which might have been the reason for the bypassing (by previous electrician) has now been replaced.
If that solves, a lot less than £500...

see post #15

 

[Jay21]

can't pm him. his profile does not have the option. strange he gone offline within 20 mins of OP.

BTW, just to let you know if you look at your Facebook page and click on the website link, it goes off to some American site in Connecticut. HTH.

 

[Jay21]

can't pm him. his profile does not have the option. strange he gone offline within 20 mins of OP.

BTW, just to let you know if you look at your Facebook page and click on the website link, it goes off to some American site in Connecticut. HTH.

hmmm.before splashing out that sort of dosh. first thing is to get the fault sorted. then it's time to decide if you want to upgrade the board when there's no legal obligation to do so.

Yeah, that's what I thought but unfortunately the last three 'free quotes' only resulted in the £500 route. Hence me asking about the bypass reversal here.

 

[Pete999]

hmmm.before splashing out that sort of dosh. first thing is to get the fault sorted. then it's time to decide if you want to upgrade the board when there's no legal obligation to do so.

Is there anything Legal involved? as BS 7671 is NOT a legal document, only an advisory one.

 

[ipf]

If it's original mid sixties wiring with an added kitchen renewal, god knows what you're going to find, though!!

 

[buzzlightyear]

knows what you're going to find, though!!

one tin of beans the other a can of worms.

 

[dinger809]

What I can’t figure from that pic, is if there was an issue on one of the circuits, why not just put that in the non RCD side of the board, leaving the rest protected?
That could be done now just as a temporary measure, there are spare ways there.

 

[telectrix]

BTW, just to let you know if you look at your Facebook page and click on the website link, it goes off to some American site in Connecticut. HTH.

Yeah, that's what I thought but unfortunately the last three 'free quotes' only resulted in the £500 route. Hence me asking about the bypass reversal here.

we are only guessing without a site visit. an honest appraisal is essential. as an example. i'd come out and spend up to an hour tracing the fault for a max.of £75. if not sorted within that time, then a quote would be given.

 

[Deleted account]

Yeah, a lot on today. Just wondering why nobody seems to be able to answer the original question i.e. if the RCD has been bypassed, why not connect it up again and test that circuit?? - given the old cooker which might have been the reason for the bypassing (by previous electrician) has now been replaced.
If that solves, a lot less than £500...

I wouldn't be prepared to reconnect up again until an Eicr is done.
Once that's done and if no faults are found yes reconnect up.

However I would want to change the CU as only having one RCD protecting all those circuits is not good design.
And you must now take into consideration circuits design and spread between appropriate number of rcd,s in installation to minimise the loss of too many circuits in the event of a fault.
I definately wouldn't put the new oven and induction hob on same rcd as all those other circuits.

So yes agree with 3 other sparks a new CU. ether an RCD split board or preferably an RCBO board with surge protection.

Surge protection is a whole other discussion.

 

[magnoliafan89]

What I can’t figure from that pic, is if there was an issue on one of the circuits, why not just put that in the non RCD side of the board, leaving the rest protected?
That could be done now just as a temporary measure, there are spare ways there.

Simple...whoever did it couldn't think cause all they could hear was the jangling of the spurs on their boots.....

 

[sparksburnout]

I wouldn't be prepared to reconnect up again until an Eicr is done.
Once that's done and if no faults are found yes reconnect up.

However I would want to change the CU as only having one RCD protecting all those circuits is not good design.
And you must now take into consideration circuits design and spread between appropriate number of rcd,s in installation to minimise the loss of too many circuits in the event of a fault.
I definately wouldn't put the new oven and induction hob on same rcd as all those other circuits.

So yes agree with 3 other sparks a new CU. ether an RCD split board or preferably an RCBO board with surge protection.

Surge protection is a whole other discussion.

What a load of rollocks. There are thousands of CU's with a single RCD protecting multiple circuits. Would you want to rip the customer off by changing the CU every time something simple like an oven or hob needed connecting up? What do you mean surge protection where did that come from??

 

[Jay21]

see post #15

?? There's only 18 posts

What I can’t figure from that pic, is if there was an issue on one of the circuits, why not just put that in the non RCD side of the board, leaving the rest protected?
That could be done now just as a temporary measure, there are spare ways there.

Thanks, that sounds interesting - shall ask next guy who comes.

 

[Jay21]

I wouldn't be prepared to reconnect up again until an Eicr is done.
Once that's done and if no faults are found yes reconnect up.

However I would want to change the CU as only having one RCD protecting all those circuits is not good design.
And you must now take into consideration circuits design and spread between appropriate number of rcd,s in installation to minimise the loss of too many circuits in the event of a fault.
I definately wouldn't put the new oven and induction hob on same rcd as all those other circuits.

So yes agree with 3 other sparks a new CU. ether an RCD split board or preferably an RCBO board with surge protection.

Surge protection is a whole other discussion.

Thanks for the clear advice, understand your points about the CU and not connecting oven and hob on same RCD (those induction hobs seem to be quite power hungry). Also understand the sense of having EICRs done periodically.
As a punter though, still feel the need to query why restoring the bypassed 30mA RCCB - to see if the tripping issue no longer happens - is not being considered even as an option?
The house was rewired around 15+ years ago, and the CU is no longer made but is not exactly something out of the Ark - and the RCCB is obviously working, since it kept tripping for the original guy.
So restoring the bypassed cable will IMHO either result in the RCCB tripping again (meaning more investigation of the circuits, obviously) or it not tripping (presumably meaning that removing the old appliance solved the problem).
If NICEIC regulations etc. specifically prohibit this, then fair enough - would not want a spark to compromise and at the end of the day I am always happy to pay for good work especially where it is essential, and am known for usually giving a decent bonus on top.
Not so happy with the type of guys (NICEIC certified as well) who come along for five minutes, don't even bother to take the cover of the CU off and say airily 'right, that'll cost you £500 for a wiring test and a new CU'. Smacks too much of just being a nice little earner. And probably encourages a lot of people to just give up and go with an unqualified but more flexible spark, which seems to be happening more often round here.

 

[GBDamo]

Thanks for the clear advice, understand your points about the CU and not connecting oven and hob on same RCD (those induction hobs seem to be quite power hungry). Also understand the sense of having EICRs done periodically.
As a punter though, still feel the need to query why restoring the bypassed 30mA RCCB - to see if the tripping issue no longer happens - is not being considered even as an option?
The house was rewired around 15+ years ago, and the CU is no longer made but is not exactly something out of the Ark - and the RCCB is obviously working, since it kept tripping for the original guy.
So restoring the bypassed cable will IMHO either result in the RCCB tripping again (meaning more investigation of the circuits, obviously) or it not tripping (presumably meaning that removing the old appliance solved the problem).
If NICEIC regulations etc. specifically prohibit this, then fair enough - would not want a spark to compromise and at the end of the day I am always happy to pay for good work especially where it is essential, and am known for usually giving a decent bonus on top.
Not so happy with the type of guys (NICEIC certified as well) who come along for five minutes, don't even bother to take the cover of the CU off and say airily 'right, that'll cost you £500 for a wiring test and a new CU'. Smacks too much of just being a nice little earner. And probably encourages a lot of people to just give up and go with an unqualified but more flexible spark, which seems to be happening more often round here.

What you're suggesting, reconnecting the iffy circuit and seeing if the RCD trips, is affectionately known as bang testing round these parts and is quite rightly frowned upon.

As has been suggested, the iffy circuit can be tested and if ok reinstated. It could well have been an appliance fault causing the tripping, who knows though without testing.

You should be able to get an answer easily and cheaply if you employ an electrician to do just that. So don't say "what do you think I need" rather state "I believe there is a fault on this circuit, would like it tested and, if fault free, reinstated on the RCD side of the CU" then"if there is a fault I'd like a price to remedy it and reinstate on the RCD side of the CU"

Ignore the BSer and keep asking until one says "yes sir I can do that for you"

Repairing the fault, in the event there is one, is a bit of an known unknown (Donald Rumsfeld) but should be significantly cheaper than the £500 quoted.

I'm in the 'no need to replace the CU' camp.

 

[Jay21]

What you're suggesting, reconnecting the iffy circuit and seeing if the RCD trips, is affectionately known as bang testing round these parts and is quite rightly frowned upon.

As has been suggested, the iffy circuit can be tested and if ok reinstated. It could well have been an appliance fault causing the tripping, who knows though without testing.

You should be able to get an answer easily and cheaply if you employ an electrician to do just that. So don't say "what do you think I need" rather state "I believe there is a fault on this circuit, would like it tested and, if fault free, reinstated on the RCD side of the CU" then"if there is a fault I'd like a price to remedy it and reinstate on the RCD side of the CU"

Ignore the BSer and keep asking until one says "yes sir I can do that for you"

Repairing the fault, in the event there is one, is a bit of an known unknown (Donald Rumsfeld) but should be significantly cheaper than the £500 quoted.

I'm in the 'no need to replace the CU' camp.

Thanks, mate - really appreciate the advice which seems sound to me.
NOT a cheapskate, and really value good trades people and don't quibble or haggle - but none of the three guys I got (all registered, all big ads in local paper) gave me much confidence. Too slick, too quick to jump to the 'nuclear option' and not keen to really explain things in simple terms.
I'll go your route - and obviously happy to fork out for an EICR for my own piece of mind down the road.
Cheers.