Best first step to remedy bypassed domestic RCD box?

[Jay21]

Moved into 60's semi and had work done to renew kitchen, including new induction hob, cooker etc.
3 qualified electricians came to quote and each mentioned that someone had bypassed one of the RCDs (?) in the main box (Branded GET/Schupa), so that circuits to the right of the attached photo are not protected. (marked by yellow arrow)
All wanted to do full PAT and replace box before actually attaching new applicances, which may be fair enough.
But what I don't get is why nobody as yet has suggested simply reinstating the bypassed circuit - and seeing if it trips now that the old appliances (including an old Belling cooker) have been replaced by new ones.
That way I might be able to continue with existing box temporarily (as funds are limited due to having had to do various other works in house).
Any thoughts? Thanks.

 

[sparksburnout]

Thanks, mate - really appreciate the advice which seems sound to me.
NOT a cheapskate, and really value good trades people and don't quibble or haggle - but none of the three guys I got (all registered, all big ads in local paper) gave me much confidence. Too slick, too quick to jump to the 'nuclear option' and not keen to really explain things in simple terms.
I'll go your route - and obviously happy to fork out for an EICR for my own piece of mind down the road.
Cheers.

You don't need a new CU and you probably don't need anything other than new appliances. It will more as likely be a faulty original oven, it's a simple job for a spark to check the circuit in question. There is no problem having the oven and hob on the same RCD or even the same cable as long as it is rated accordingly. Sounds like these "NIC" sparks are just on the make to me.

 

[Deleted account]

I agree you don't need a new cu for the works you are carrying out, but I would recomend it.

It's my opinion, but as the customer the choice is yours and I would carry out works to your requirements if it was within the regs. But I would give you reasons why I would recomend CU.

As I explained in earlier post that sparks burnt out commented on its not good design to have too many circuits on one RCD.

 

[Jay21]

You don't need a new CU and you probably don't need anything other than new appliances. It will more as likely be a faulty original oven, it's a simple job for a spark to check the circuit in question. There is no problem having the oven and hob on the same RCD or even the same cable as long as it is rated accordingly. Sounds like these "NIC" sparks are just on the make to me.

Yeah, I heard that olde Belling type electric ovens can often cause the tripping, so think you might be right there.
Thanks - definitely agree with you about them being 'on the make' !
Cheers

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Looks to me, that there are two circuits (3 & 4) that have been disconnected.
Also judging by the 6mm2 crimps, it looks like someone has relocated the 2nd RCD protected circuit from the non-RCD side.

 

[Jay21]

I agree you don't need a new cu for the works you are carrying out, but I would recomend it.

It's my opinion, but as the customer the choice is yours and I would carry out works to your requirements if it was within the regs. But I would give you reasons why I would recomend CU.

As I explained in earlier post that sparks burnt out commented on its not good design to have too many circuits on one RCD.

Yep, given that GET/Schupa aren't made any more and you can only (just about) get spares via eBay, I know that down the line it makes sense to get a new CU - hopefully that manufacturer won't be swallowed up. I'm just not keen on the sparks who make a new CU the first/only option before trying a simpler solution to begin with.

 

[Jay21]

Looks to me, that there are two circuits (3 & 4) that have been disconnected.
Also judging by the 6mm2 crimps, it looks like someone has relocated the 2nd RCD protected circuit from the non-RCD side.

Thanks for the info - just realised it might help if I uploaded the front of the CU, showing the (theoretical...) circuit names.

 

[telectrix]

see post #3. manchester is OK for me as long as it's not too far to the east side.

 

[DPG]

Not so happy with the type of guys (NICEIC certified as well) who come along for five minutes, don't even bother to take the cover of the CU off and say airily 'right, that'll cost you £500 for a wiring test and a new CU'. Smacks too much of just being a nice little earner. And probably encourages a lot of people to just give up and go with an unqualified but more flexible spark, which seems to be happening more often round here.

I thought each of the electricians had told you that the RCD had been bypassed - they must have took the cover off to know this.

 

[Jay21]

I thought each of the electricians had told you that the RCD had been bypassed - they must have took the cover off to know this.

Actually only the original unqualified electrician (sent by the kitchen fitter and not a great worker) took the cover off and said this (because he was about to connect up the appliances). The other three qualified electricians were informed by me of the first guy saying there was a bypass - and they just stood there, making no move to take the cover off and actually examine the box, simply quoting an initial job cost.
The whole point in me posting here was to meet up with sparks who use their brain rather than thinking of a number and then doubling it without making any effort to analyse the situation. Fortunately had some helpful replies on here.

 

[davesparks]

As a punter though, still feel the need to query why restoring the bypassed 30mA RCCB - to see if the tripping issue no longer happens - is not being considered even as an option?

This would not be a sensible option as the RCD may not trip straight away, if an electrician was to reconnect the RCD and leave it at that then you may find that it trips a couple of hours later and causes you some problems.

The sensible approach in my opinion would be to test the circuits and test the RCD itself before reconnecting it (if all tests show positive results).

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Does the cooker switch have a plug socket on it?

 

[Jay21]

This would not be a sensible option as the RCD may not trip straight away, if an electrician was to reconnect the RCD and leave it at that then you may find that it trips a couple of hours later and causes you some problems.

The sensible approach in my opinion would be to test the circuits and test the RCD itself before reconnecting it (if all tests show positive results).

I think I'd live with the RCD maybe tripping and having to call the spark back. That way, if it did not trip, it seems I save £300 on a potentially unnecessary test (though obviously if the RCD does trip, a test is clearly necessary). Thanks.

 

[Jay21]

Does the cooker switch have a plug socket on it?

(Late answer due to being away). Yes, a single 3 pin socket and rocker switch for cooker. As it happens, this is the one new appliance that is working - the original not so great spark sent in by the plumber said he could wire this up as it was an existing circuit (replacing the old Belling electric cooker).

 

[shaun1]

I think I'd live with the RCD maybe tripping and having to call the spark back. That way, if it did not trip, it seems I save £300 on a potentially unnecessary test (though obviously if the RCD does trip, a test is clearly necessary). Thanks.

The test required to check for the main cause of RCD tripping (insulation resistance test) would takearound 10 mins to perform (and even less time if you unplugged everything first). You could have that done, an earth loop test on each circuit and the RCD re instated within an hour, 2 tops, if all the tests were good. So theres a good chance you wouldnt have to pay any more than the minumimum call out fee to have it tested and reinstated.

I imadgine most people would advise having some more in depth testing carried out as you dont know the history of the instalation, and if someone has carried out that modification who knows what else they have done!

 

[davesparks]

I think I'd live with the RCD maybe tripping and having to call the spark back. That way, if it did not trip, it seems I save £300 on a potentially unnecessary test (though obviously if the RCD does trip, a test is clearly necessary). Thanks.

Where do you get £300 from? Basic tests of the circuits and the RCD won't take long.
I'm not suggesting a full EICR with associated paperwork etc, just basic tests to establish the state of play.