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B

bigd

Dear All,

What are the 'tricks' to a good earth rod impedance?

If I'm getting 30-40 ohms am I doing OK?

Am I flogging a dead horse trying to get it any lower?

I know the regs recommend under 200 ohms but what's the general concensus on what constitutes a good reading?
 
Try living here in Cornwall. Recent stories about rods include 11 rod positions giving a reading of 211 ohms, guy gave up at that. 4 x rods deep to get a reading of 197. Granite, you've got to love it.
Also DNO, Western Power, now send a letter reply to PME enquiries stating that they no longer allow new connections to the overhead network as they cannot guarantee meeting the max Ze of 0.35 ohms.
 
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Points to consider...
In the UK an RCD is the preferred method of ADS on a TT.
Unless you achieve sub 10 ohm....preferably sub 2 ohm...there is no advantage over an Ra of sub 200 ohms as you are still reliant on the RCD for disconnection.
An Ra of 30-40 ohms would be considered low by many.....but work out the earth fault current and you will find this will not operated any OCPD's....you are still reliant on an RCD..(that will operate at Ra's of <1667 ohms)

Other than that...I'm staying out of it !
 
Slightly askew but can anybody suggest a good method for getting earth rods into difficult ground (read rocky), (except getting somebody else to do it and dynamite!) :)

I have a market garden to work on as a new install. Their building is timber framed so the DNO will not class it as a permanent building and thus supply and earth. Blinking DNO pole is 3 feet away from the building! I'm getting too old for all the blood, sweat and tears of trying to bang earth rods into the ground :(
 
The best hope would be a decent diameter rod which is nicely sharpened and use an SDS attachment on you jack-hammer. We also dig at least the first 1 - 1.5 meters especially if it's close to a building, this should get through the building rubble and reduces the chance of hitting any services. Depending on the rocks it might still be a problem though, I've had areas where we've tried three or four times and failed then the next one just hits lucky and goes straight in with no problems. If the worst comes to the worst we go with buried earth mats but this means large holes must be dug so it's a last resort.
 
Points to consider...
In the UK an RCD is the preferred method of ADS on a TT.
Unless you achieve sub 10 ohm....preferably sub 2 ohm...there is no advantage over an Ra of sub 200 ohms as you are still reliant on the RCD for disconnection.
An Ra of 30-40 ohms would be considered low by many.....but work out the earth fault current and you will find this will not operated any OCPD's....you are still reliant on an RCD..(that will operate at Ra's of <1667 ohms)

Other than that...I'm staying out of it !

You couldn't stay out of it if you tried, you just have to stand up for your precious UK 200ohms no matter what...lol!! Just hope for the best like, that the RCD your totally relying on doesn't fail!!

Your don't even try attitude basically sucks. Then i read the sort of lengths that Marvo goes too to get a decent Ra, ....What a difference between the two of you. Not once have i ever seen him state on a thread here, that it's not worth trying to do the job right, when you can rely on a RCD to cover the installation for earth faults. ...A true Professional!!
 
You couldn't stay out of it if you tried, you just have to stand up for your precious UK 200ohms no matter what...lol!! Just hope for the best like, that the RCD your totally relying on doesn't fail!!

Your don't even try attitude basically sucks. Then i read the sort of lengths that Marvo goes too to get a decent Ra, ....What a difference between the two of you. Not once have i ever seen him state on a thread here, that it's not worth trying to do the job right, when you can rely on a RCD to cover the installation for earth faults. ...A true Professional!!


Firstly I have stated on here before that I consider it should be a requirement for UK TT systems to have an up front TD RCD so that there is not reliance on a single device. IMO the chance of two RCD's failing is beyond remote.
Secondly I can see the point of going to considerable legnths to get a low Ra on large and complex installs....on the typical small TT install usually discussed on this forum,I cant.
Thirdly I resent my professionalism being called into question when I am at the very least complying with british standards,and in fact exceeding them by advocating the use of more than one RCD. I do not have an attidude that sucks.....I dont try,as you put it,because what you insist is essential is a waste of time.I dont waste my time or my clients money.
Fourthly if you can give an actual instance of an incident on a UK TT system which would have been prevented by a lower Ra then please do so....( I recall you were asked for this on another thread by IQ and failed to come up with anything then).
 
Blimey,

Unleashed a torrent here!!

Thanks for your replies. Didn't even think it would ever be possible to get a Ze down to 1-2 ohms on a TT system. Will try harder on my next TT install!!

Like the idea of an additional downstream 100mA RCD (in addition to the 30mA in the CU) so as not to rely on the one device
 
Firstly I have stated on here before that I consider it should be a requirement for UK TT systems to have an up front TD RCD so that there is not reliance on a single device. IMO the chance of two RCD's failing is beyond remote.
Secondly I can see the point of going to considerable legnths to get a low Ra on large and complex installs....on the typical small TT install usually discussed on this forum,I cant.
Thirdly I resent my professionalism being called into question when I am at the very least complying with british standards,and in fact exceeding them by advocating the use of more than one RCD.
Surely your not saying/implying that BS 7671 needs it's present standing on TT systems amending?? ....But then again you must be, if you feel the need to have more than just the one RCD on a TTsystem!! So you don't seem to want to trust a 200 ohm Ra and a single RCD either... I've never suggested that one should go to considerable lengths on a domestic installation. What i have tried to put forward is how to gain a better TT Ra value. I certainly dismiss the idea of an electrician whacking in a short thin rod willy nilly and having him call it a TT system, that's just a complete farce!!!

I do not have an attidude that sucks.....I dont try,as you put it,because what you insist is essential is a waste of time.I dont waste my time or my clients money. My point exactly you don't even bother to Try!! So you really don't know if your wasting you time or not!! In this threads case, if the OP has a 20 ohm value from a single rod (assumed single rod) then surely extending that rod isn't going to be a waste of time or money, even if he then extended it to a third rod (3m) as he could well be close to a sub 1 ohm value.... Telling the guy to not even bother trying is well out of order here!!!

Fourthly if you can give an actual instance of an incident on a UK TT system which would have been prevented by a lower Ra then please do so....( I recall you were asked for this on another thread by IQ and failed to come up with anything then).
As i remember, it was about RCDs and if i had any proof of a RCD failure causing a death!! And no i don't, ...but then nor does IQ have proof that it hasn't. Lack of a report isn't in my world, proof of anything!! Unlike some here, ...i'm not surrounded by various forms or papers or reports and statistics, i come on here with nothing in front or around me!! I rely on my education, my knowledge and most of all, my experience...

Going back to what your now asking
'' if can give an actual instance of an incident on a UK TT system which would have been prevented by a lower Ra then please do so...'' Again no i can't, ....but then i shouldn't have to, as one would expect their electrician to at the very least, TRY to get a decent Ra if he is installing a TT system on their behalf!!

I don't believe i have called your professionalism into question, where did you get that from?? I totally don't agree with your stance on not even bothering to try and get a good Ra for your customers/clients, is that what you mean??
 
I don't believe i have called your professionalism into question, where did you get that from?? I totally don't agree with your stance on not even bothering to try and get a good Ra for your customers/clients, is that what you mean??

From here...a quote from your post.

"Your don't even try attitude basically sucks. Then i read the sort of lengths that Marvo goes too to get a decent Ra, ....What a difference between the two of you. Not once have i ever seen him state on a thread here, that it's not worth trying to do the job right, when you can rely on a RCD to cover the installation for earth faults. ...A true Professional!! "

 
On this score it does suck! perhaps not the best term to use, but then stating on an open electrical forum ''Not to even bother Trying'' is bloody bad to say the least!! I can see where you think i'm calling your professionalism into question, but that was NOT the intention, and appologise for any implication it may have caused to you. Apart from or disagreements on TT systems, i've always found your posts to be knowledgeable, helpful and to the point...

And Again on this particular score, as far as Marvo is conserned he has consistently shown in his threads and posts, determination to do what ever is necessary on his jobs to get the best TT earthing value he can for his clients. Sorry if that upsets you, but in my opinion, that's a true professional at work....
 
You too, making me laugh!

Just send each other a pewter tankard! :001_icon16:

I have a property I can practise on...so to speak.... I'm going to see how low I can go with that Ra! (it's about 54 Ohms at the moment).
 
You too, making me laugh!

Just send each other a pewter tankard! :001_icon16:

I have a property I can practise on...so to speak.... I'm going to see how low I can go with that Ra! (it's about 54 Ohms at the moment).

You can't TT a wendy house :)
 

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