Bit of advice landlord testing in scotland

[Gazthesparky]

Need a bit of advice

I have my 2391, apprenticeship and 17th edition which i did back in 2006/7 I am based in Scotland so looking for a bit of advice.

I have had a private landlord contact me asking if i will do a EIRC one of his properties. I use to do them years ago when i used to work for the council.

I have tried to join select which is Scotland based but they have refused to let me join as they say my 17th edition is out of date and i need to do it again. they say that it has to have been completed within the last 5 years. Thats another story for another day.

The question is can I carry out the EIRC or do i need to be part of a scam? I have spoken to select and building control and they have sent me a covering letter that i can attach to the test certificate. it has a tick list on it like public liability and another box saying 17th edition within the last 5 years which of corse i haven't .

So does that mean i cant carry out EIRCs or do i just go ahead and test and issue the certificate ?

any advice would be great

thanks

 

[telectrix]

if the landlord and his insurers are happy for a EICR by a non-select member, then you're good to go.

 

[vjsmarwick]

Being a member of select stands for nothing ! If you have qualifications you listed do your tests and fill in your certification no problem ! All these so called governing bodies are only out to make money off the gullable that are willing to pay to be part of it ! We have to question why do we serve our time if we are then going to be told by some blue collar that wouldn't know one end of a screwdriver from the other that we need to give them even more money to do what they can't anyway !!

 

[Wilko]

Maybe just confirm with your insurer that you will be covered, as you may need an add on. Agree with others - no requirement to be a member of an association to do EICR, just competence and insurance.

 

[gutterball]

You could join the nic they let anyone in.
when i started out on my own the local councils were insisting on select or nic membership so i had a meeting with the building control officer and showed him my qualifications and he was happy if i attached a copy of my gold card to the forms.

 

[JK-Electrical]

I'm sure you'll find the statutory guidance issued by the Scottish Government to be very useful. I draw your attention to the checklist published in Annex A of the document.

https://tinyurl.com/sottishgovernment-EICR

"An EICR must be completed by a suitably competent person. Regulation 16 of the Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 requires persons to be competent to prevent danger and injury. The HSE publication HSR 25 provides guidance on this.

The landlord is responsible for ensuring the person completing an EICR is suitably competent. Using a firm that is a member of an accredited registration scheme operated by a recognised body will give some degree of confidence that this has been achieved. In Scotland, this will usually mean that they are a registered with NICEIC or a member firm of the Electrical Contractors' Association of Scotland (SELECT).

Both the NICEIC and the Electrical Contractors' Association of Scotland (SELECT) provide online tools for finding local members.

Landlords can take membership of these organisations as evidence of competence.

Alternatively, a landlord should seek evidence of competence and have regard to the details provided. A competent person (other than a member of NICEIC or SELECT) should be able to confirm all of the points listed in the checklist form provided on the following page."

 

[vjsmarwick]

I'm sure you'll find the statutory guidance issued by the Scottish Government to be very useful. I draw your attention to the checklist published in Annex A of the document.

https://tinyurl.com/sottishgovernment-EICR

"An EICR must be completed by a suitably competent person. Regulation 16 of the Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 requires persons to be competent to prevent danger and injury. The HSE publication HSR 25 provides guidance on this.

The landlord is responsible for ensuring the person completing an EICR is suitably competent. Using a firm that is a member of an accredited registration scheme operated by a recognised body will give some degree of confidence that this has been achieved. In Scotland, this will usually mean that they are a registered with NICEIC or a member firm of the Electrical Contractors' Association of Scotland (SELECT).

Both the NICEIC and the Electrical Contractors' Association of Scotland (SELECT) provide online tools for finding local members.

Landlords can take membership of these organisations as evidence of competence.

Alternatively, a landlord should seek evidence of competence and have regard to the details provided. A competent person (other than a member of NICEIC or SELECT) should be able to confirm all of the points listed in the checklist form provided on the following page."

I think most of us already know that being a member of niceic or select is no proof of being competence ! It high time the leaders of the industry stopped making such false claims. Sure most are but not all which is why I refuse to pay to be a member of any of these groups ! Best recommendation anyone can get is word of mouth ! I have never advertised in my life and never been short of work !

 

[JK-Electrical]

I think most of us already know that being a member of niceic or select is no proof of being competence ! It high time the leaders of the industry stopped making such false claims. Sure most are but not all which is why I refuse to pay to be a member of any of these groups ! Best recommendation anyone can get is word of mouth ! I have never advertised in my life and never been short of work !

I agree. Membership of the NICEIC or SELECT is by itself no guarantee of competence, but it wasn't the NICEIC or SELECT who wrote the statutory guidance that I quoted above, it was the Scottish Government. The OP asked if he could carry-out EICRs in Scotland without having to be a member of the NICEIC or SELECT. The answer, is yes he can, assuming, of course, he can fulfill all of the competency criteria.

I drew his attention to Annex A of the statutory guidance so that he could peruse the check-list and decide for himself whether or not he meets the competency requirements. That he does not have a current BS 7671 qualification would, by the Scottish Government's definition, mean that he would not be considered competent to carry-out EICRs.

 

[baldelectrician]

I agree.
As some of you may know I am politically active and actually took direct input to the legislation prior to it being finalised

I actually spoke to the (then) housing minister at a local tenants group open day and asked about landlord certification.
She passed me to her assistant and the assistant took my name and number and passed it on to the civil servant doing the rules.
About a week later the guy called me (not giving his name on an open forum) and I suggested that it should be NICEIC / SELECT or someone who meets the standards of same
I sent him a tick list (listing the entry criteria from the NICEIC and SELECT sites in a single list).
He called me back 5 weeks later and said they had agreed to put it in (but had to change / remove 2 items)
If a landlord uses a scheme member there is a higher level of come back and they can prove due diligence if something were to go wrond.
If they don't the have to rely on Appendix A and hope the info is correct.

 

[JK-Electrical]

I agree.
As some of you may know I am politically active and actually took direct input to the legislation prior to it being finalised

I actually spoke to the (then) housing minister at a local tenants group open day and asked about landlord certification.
She passed me to her assistant and the assistant took my name and number and passed it on to the civil servant doing the rules.
About a week later the guy called me (not giving his name on an open forum) and I suggested that it should be NICEIC / SELECT or someone who meets the standards of same
I sent him a tick list (listing the entry criteria from the NICEIC and SELECT sites in a single list).
He called me back 5 weeks later and said they had agreed to put it in (but had to change / remove 2 items)
If a landlord uses a scheme member there is a higher level of come back and they can prove due diligence if something were to go wrond.
If they don't the have to rely on Appendix A and hope the info is correct.

While I see the logic in this approach, the guidance just isn't having the desired effect insofar as EICRs are being carried-out by some who have neither the required qualifications and/or competency. I know this for sure as I've lost quite a few EICR jobs to a young competitor who carries-out EICRs despite him not having any relevant testing qualifications, or even a current BS 7671.

Moreover, despite having completed dozens of EICRs on behalf of landlords, not once have I been asked to provide documentation that would ascertain my qualifications and competency, and only once have I been asked whether I was a member of NICEIC or SELECT (I'm a member of the SELECT probationary scheme).

Other than the introduction of some form of licensing system along the lines of the Australian model, is there any other possible way that people can ever be prevented from undertaking electrical that they are unqualified and/or incompetent to perform?

 

[vjsmarwick]

While I see the logic in this approach, the guidance just isn't having the desired effect insofar as EICRs are being carried-out by some who have neither the required qualifications and/or competency. I know this for sure as I've lost quite a few EICR jobs to a young competitor who carries-out EICRs despite him not having any relevant testing qualifications, or even a current BS 7671.

Moreover, despite having completed dozens of EICRs on behalf of landlords, not once have I been asked to provide documentation that would ascertain my qualifications and competency, and only once have I been asked whether I was a member of NICEIC or SELECT (I'm a member of the SELECT probationary scheme).

Other than the introduction of some form of licensing system along the lines of the Australian model, is there any other possible way that people can ever be prevented from undertaking electrical that they are unqualified and/or incompetent to perform?

I can't see how even a licence would stop people that know nothing about it from doing it but as in industry we can make sure those who are making an attempt are properly governed ! I have seen a few good sized companies having people who don't know the first thing about it filling in certificates without even seeing the house. The best way to stop this is simple your not allowed to check your own or your own companies work this could be done simply by the local authorities employing someone qualified to check the work done as it should be ! At the end of the day it's your local authority that accepts your signature they pass the plans they over see all work done so they should also be responsible to make sure it's carried out properly ! That way any notifiable work would have to be done properly ! As for pure cowboys doing things for friends and the like there will never be anything we can do to stop this !

 

[baldelectrician]

While I see the logic in this approach, the guidance just isn't having the desired effect insofar as EICRs are being carried-out by some who have neither the required qualifications and/or competency. I know this for sure as I've lost quite a few EICR jobs to a young competitor who carries-out EICRs despite him not having any relevant testing qualifications, or even a current BS 7671.

Moreover, despite having completed dozens of EICRs on behalf of landlords, not once have I been asked to provide documentation that would ascertain my qualifications and competency, and only once have I been asked whether I was a member of NICEIC or SELECT (I'm a member of the SELECT probationary scheme).

Other than the introduction of some form of licensing system along the lines of the Australian model, is there any other possible way that people can ever be prevented from undertaking electrical that they are unqualified and/or incompetent to perform?

I see your point but what we have now is far better than the guff the building standards non-scheme is here
I make a point of telling landlords on the initial call about the rules and try to follow up by an email with links the the Scottish Government housing chamber site

You can tell people but they will take or ignore the advice