Block of 200+ flats, eleven single channel hot water timers blown this week alone.

[GBDamo]

Got called to "a flat in Manchester has no hot water" at 16:30 today and to be frank I was a little miffed to have to attend.

So arrives at site, spends 20mins finding parking, 30 mins finding the site contact, getting keys and then being informed that it was not one flat but eleven.

Have no idea what the supply is, big I'd guess, nor did I have access to ant distribution equipment, just a list of flat numbers.

So I go to the first one. The 16A MCB was off and was informed that "it goes bang if you try to turn it back on" which I took his word for.

So I worked back from the tank, element OK, thermostat OK, wiring OK however the timer was visibly burnt out.

Did a random sample of the other ten and of the four I checked out all had the same burnt out timer.

Due to the time nothing more was done and an assumption (I know?) made that all had blown.

The only other thing I did was to check the local voltages and all were 236-7V and steady, for the brief time I observed.

These flats were all over, not just one floor so unlikely to be from a single phase or distribution board.

The tennants all made the same complaints of flickering lights and one long recent power outage.

None of the staff had any knowledge.

----es me off that there is nobody on site with any ownership, or understanding of the buildings and their systems, there are two blocks approx 400 flats for christ sake.

I'm half tempted to just replace the controllers and note there may be underlying issues that need further investigations.

How would you guys approach this?

 

[nicebutdim]

Little of it makes any sense.

Don't get me wrong; I've been exceptionally careful with both sets of parents over the last 18 months, but none of the advice ever stacks up and I'm fed up with media reporting incomparable statistics - I'm not sure if this is a simple case of sensationalism or a deliberate intent to mislead.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

"some flat plugging in too many appliances and burnt out a fuse and some wires"

I find this highly implausible.

I find it total BS.

As you suggest, the contractor might have fixed the problem but given the management office a waffly explanation to deflect blame. Or Chinese whispers; their guys gave an explanation that made sense but after a couple of re-tellings by non-technical people it's lost all meaning.

Anyway get well soon or better still hope you have't got it.

 

[happysteve]

We had a broken neutral on our old house a few years ago, that was supplied (with our neighbours) via mural wiring on the back of the houses. The N connection between the houses was good, but intermittently high resistance to the supply N. The voltage went up, or down, depending on the loads on each phase (each house). When the lights got scarily bright, I put on the kettle.

In the 40 second video, the voltage doesn't go above 240V... but trust me, it did.

WPD ended up replacing about 10-20 items of blown electronic items in each of the 3 houses affected.

Luckily nothing burnt down.

Thanks for the original post, and all the contributions, interesting read. Get well soon.

 

[Mikegh]

We had a broken neutral on our old house a few years ago, that was supplied (with our neighbours) via mural wiring on the back of the houses. The N connection between the houses was good, but intermittently high resistance to the supply N. The voltage went up, or down, depending on the loads on each phase (each house). When the lights got scarily bright, I put on the kettle.

In the 40 second video, the voltage doesn't go above 240V... but trust me, it did.

WPD ended up replacing about 10-20 items of blown electronic items in each of the 3 houses affected.

Luckily nothing burnt down.

Thanks for the original post, and all the contributions, interesting read. Get well soon.

Any events like that lightning brownouts overvoltage

I usually knock off the RCD or the entire installation

 

[Mikegh]

If the supply goes I'd rather switch off as until fully restored as the supply can bounce on and off

Maybe leave a light switched on as an indicator

Wouldn't trust it not to damage the electronic equipment in my place

 

[UNG]

Final update.

First thing, we have plague in the house so this may be my last post. We have one positive test and I'm fairly sure I've got it now, did my test this morning.

Interestingly my missus who, is a double jabbed devotee, is in bed (three days now) with it after catching it on a camping trip.

What exactly does this vaccine do?

I think it is very difficult to actually identify how or where the virus was caught without there being any doubt especially when some people carry it without any symptoms and others can carry it for weeks before any symptoms show

But I do hope you all get better soon having had it twice I do feel for you as it can really knock you for more than 6 or at least it feels that way

Anyway had a chat with the contact at the flats this morning and to be honest I'm befuddled by her explanation.

They have had the situation looked at and resolved. Apparently it was "some flat plugging in too many appliances and burnt out a fuse and some wires"

I find this highly implausible.

Any overload should have been dealt with by the OCPDs in the flats and not downstream. Unless the design of the installation was seriously FUBAR.

More likely they got the installers back in to check it over and they've tightened up their loose neutrals.

I have never heard so much BS tosh

So who picks up the tab for the replacement timers

 

[Mikegh]

"some flat plugging in too many appliances and burnt out a fuse and some wires"

Rubbish anyway whether the story got legs I dunno

 

[Simon47]

The tennants all made the same complaints of flickering lights and one long recent power outage.

Best guess, loss of neutral

Does sound suspiciously like that doesn't it.

It just baffles me that these building, under the management of a bunch of kids more interested in filling "units" than the safety of the tenants, are expected to manage themselves and you as a tradesperson should just be able to come in and "fix it".

Does anybody there even have the knowledge to comprehend that the have a potentially dangerous situation?

Well a building that size must have a formal management system in place - and no, it's not acceptable if the "kids" are having to manage this on their own. The management function needs to have - either in house or brought in as required - considerable specialist knowledge.
You might ask who the "responsible person" is and how to contact them directly.

Twice I have told them it needs attention, verbally and in writing via the job card.

I will chase it up on Monday as the lass who I was dealing with didn't convince me she understood the potential gravity of the situation.

I can think of a good way to get their attention. Big block of flats you say ? Just casually mention something like "you remember that tower block in London, Grenfell Tower ? Are you sure of all the fire safety in this building because there is potentially an electrical fault that could set light it up - and you could be in the dock to demonstrate why you aren't responsible for the ensuing deaths".
OK, a bit sensationalist - but if you're dealing with someone who doesn't want to hear any bad news, suggesting that they could find themselves in court on manslaughter charges is likely to wake them up.

I find it total BS.

Indeed. The only way I could see for tenants to cause any problem would be to load up the system with complex loads till the harmonics burn out the neutral. But that would a) be quite noticeable, and b) quite improbable.

As you suggest, the contractor might have fixed the problem but given the management office a waffly explanation to deflect blame. Or Chinese whispers; their guys gave an explanation that made sense but after a couple of re-tellings by non-technical people it's lost all meaning.

Either could be possible. I know from communications from my agent (I only use them for the initial let, but they still pester me over stuck that's none of their business) it's clear that they know nowt about electrics and can only regurgitate what's fed to them by "the trade" - i.e. the misleading lack of lies the scams have been putting out about EICRs over the last year or so.