Boiler case removal, are you competent?

[snoopydo]

Since the design of most modern condensing boilers use the boiler casing as part of the combustion system, meaning only a gas safe engineer can remove them how many refuse to wire them up/ remove the case without the gas safe engineer present? and i guess more importantly how many realise that they are not allowed to remove the case of alot of these modern appliances??

 

[odawire]

I've always been able to access the wiring without removing the case itself and if it hasn't been commissioned yet it shouldn't matter anyway as technically you could be working under there supervision.

 

[Des 56]

Don't you just love this modern day culture of ours

Do we refuse to wire them up?
Lets not get paranoid about them


What a scary concept,having to get a heating engineer to oversee the fitting of a flex
By all means,don't ever operate a boiler that has just had a supply fitted,leave it to the Heating engineer,but lets get real please


Is this the H+S or the Compensation culture spreading its tentacles again ?

 

[trev]

So the bit where the zappy juice goes in is now part of the combustion chamber? Lol

 

[snowhead]

So the bit where the zappy juice goes in is now part of the combustion chamber? Lol

I believe the O.P has a misunderstanding on what the combustion chamber is.

Although in the eyes of the Gas Regs any WORK, i.e use of tools, would need the Worker to be competent even to remove the outer casing.

However, quite a few Gassafe eng would also not be considered competent to connect up todays more complex heating control circuits to a gas appliance.

 

[snoopydo]

i have not misunderstood what the combustion system of a boiler is, ive been in the industry for 20 years so have a good idea

i just wonder'd how many understood what the case and its seal does on many modern appliances, the dangers of it not being fitted correctly and how many check what the case does before removing it? afterall it seals the appliances flue gasses from the room the boiler is fitted which is an important thing.

im not saying its not going to happen in "the real world", same could be said about plumbers doing abit or wiring, it happens, i come across alot of boilers with the cases not secured back on properly after its been wired and Just thought it would be an interesting question and maybe make some more carefull about there working practice if they knew what the case does on many boilers.

the atitude of saying this is a H+S culture thing is wrong, surely you would want to know the dangers?? so you dont make any mistakes?? ask yourself this......... who is to blame if a case is fitted incorrectly and it hurts somebody? the gas safe engineer or the sparks who fitted the case on wrong afterwards?? I know who the judge would send to jail.

if you have wired on of the new range of worcester bosch compacts recently you will have noticed it has been designed to enable access the the wiring without removal of the entire case, this has been designed to allow non gas safe electricians to avoid breaking the gas regulations and avoid the problem of cases not being refitted correctly afterwards.

 

[chrish_1977]

Surely the outer casing is different to the combustion chamber casing, can't see it being all in one really, it's only the bits that make it go bang you can't work on unless your gas safe, so an outer casing is ok, it's also in the instructions, can't see the manufacturers making it, if you take the outer case off you expose the combustion chamber, how dangerous would that be on their part, also I have never come across a seal on the outer case, mainly due to the fact all the pipe work enters through the bottom, think wires are crossed

 

[ruston]

So the boiler manufacturers have created a lethal situation depending on the casing to keep the co in only with a perishable seal : I think i know who would be going to jail. The chicken and egg situation is ludicrous.

 

[odawire]

Surely the outer casing is different to the combustion chamber casing, can't see it being all in one really, it's only the bits that make it go bang you can't work on unless your gas safe, so an outer casing is ok, it's also in the instructions, can't see the manufacturers making it, if you take the outer case off you expose the combustion chamber, how dangerous would that be on their part, also I have never come across a seal on the outer case, mainly due to the fact all the pipe work enters through the bottom, think wires are crossed

To be fair to the OP there are a lot of boilers that the outer casing is crucial to the integrity of the combustion safety especially positive pressure types of which most of the new efficient ones tend to be. And they do need to be put on properly, some suggest a new seal every time. However most I work on are the ones that the electrics drop out of the bottom.

 

[snoopydo]

Surely the outer casing is different to the combustion chamber casing, can't see it being all in one really, it's only the bits that make it go bang you can't work on unless your gas safe, so an outer casing is ok, it's also in the instructions, can't see the manufacturers making it, if you take the outer case off you expose the combustion chamber, how dangerous would that be on their part, also I have never come across a seal on the outer case, mainly due to the fact all the pipe work enters through the bottom, think wires are crossed

so you have never wired a recent worcester bosch, or vaillant model for example?

basically if you remove the boiler case and can see the boilers internals like the fan, gas valve, heat exchanger then you have broken into the combustion system. There will be a seal that sits and seals this area when the case is on. If you take the case off and there is a big metal box which requires a second case to be open'd then your fine.

anything gas related which includes the combustion system and its seals, flue and air supply must only be worked upon by a gas safe engineer by law.

all boiler manufacturers state on the first few pages of the instruction manual that all work must be carried out by a competent person. The term "ignorance is no defense" springs to mind when somebody thinks they can blame a manufacturer for there mistakes.

 

[snoopydo]

So the boiler manufacturers have created a lethal situation depending on the casing to keep the co in only with a perishable seal : I think i know who would be going to jail. The chicken and egg situation is ludicrous.

i cant see how the boiler manufacturers have created a lethel situation, the boiler works fine. They state you must be competent to work on the appliance. If somebody removes the case and refits it incorrectly how is that the manufactuers fault??

if you buy an electrical fitting that meets a certain ip rating and fit it without putting it together properly and water gets in, is it the manufacturers fault?

manufacturers have no control over what an installer will do that moves outside there designed use and legally cant be responsible for these things really.

 

[trev]

For crying out loud you're not removing the case or accessing the combustion chamber. You're dropping an access panel to get to the terminals.

It's probably a moot point anyway because most gas guys are CPS registered so they do their own (Badly)

 

[Des 56]

What is it with the H+S bods who freaking out in hysterics on this forum

There is another thread about safe isolation with unreal ideas being floated and dire warnings of electricians actually working with electrics for christs sake

 

[trev]

Here's one for the H&S freaks.

A few times in my career I have had no choice other than to work live!

 

[davethsparky]

Some boilers you do have to remove the sealed casing to get to the wiring, Vaillant's and the worcester bosch CDi and Ri are a few