Boiler case removal, are you competent?

[Des 56]

Here's one for the H&S freaks.

A few times in my career I have had no choice other than to work live!

Did I read that correctly
Oh my God I have re read it and you actually admit this
Why do so,for goodness sake,have you not been warned that electricity is dangerous

Just because someone works in this trade,it doesn't mean they know how to work with this killer power
Hasn't that become apparent to you
You will be lucky to reach your twenties with that sort of brazen attitude my lad

You better go back to college and write out fifty times
I shall always listen to teacher
You naughty boy

 

[davethsparky]

Here's one for the H&S freaks.

A few times in my career I have had no choice other than to work live!

Yes and if presented with no possible option other than to work live then you are permitted to do so within the current H+S legislation.

I resent being called an H+S freak, I am most certainly not. But I do agree with the underlying principles of preventing death and serious injury in the work place, does this make me such a bad person?

 

[trev]

I'll do just that Des but I think you let me off lightly with the 50 lines
Also, tyvm for the age related compliment, now everyone will think I'm a young spring chicken

 

[trev]

Yes and if presented with no possible option other than to work live then you are permitted to do so within the current H+S legislation.

I resent being called an H+S freak, I am most certainly not. But I do agree with the underlying principles of preventing death and serious injury in the work place, does this make me such a bad person?

Dave, first off that post was a bit of a joke. Secondly I wasn't saying you are a freak of any description.
No, attention to H&S matters does not make you a bad person.
We cool?

- - - Updated - - -

Although I have worked live on several occassions when I've had no other choice.

 

[snoopydo]

thats one for i dont care, i have no interest, ill do what i want section LOL

 

[davethsparky]

Sorry i'm getting confused between two different threads, not helped by the constant drop outs of the forum. I've posted on the isolation thread and it appears not made my point very clear.

I think everyone of us will have been in situations where isolation is just not possible and survived them.

Of course we are cool.

 

[Des 56]

Lighten up please Dave ,there is meant to be humour underlying my replies,the term freaks is but a forceful description for me to use and not meant as abuse
Peace brother

Some people take the H+S culture very seriously and they are quite right to adhere to all its priciples if they chose

Others like me see it as a gross invasion of a person responsibilities to themselves for their own safety,I would like to see it decimated in its current climate

There are people who it could be said need protecting from themselves and special consideration should be given to that fact

On the other hand.when someone learns a trade like electrician,working live is like breathing in and breathing out,it is natural and should be taught so that it becomes natural

I suspect the reason working live is now seen as taboo is because there has been a marked lowering of the standards that constitute the trade electrician and that many would be on death row if they were to do so

Along with The lowering the training levels comes the need to protect those who may have a death sentence were they to work live

Live working should make you fear electricity and have such respect for its dangers that your own safety is well catered for by your own experience and training and should not be seen as some act of foolishness or recklessness

 

[davethsparky]

Ok, i'll go have a chat with some of mr guiness's finest, that should do the trick.

I work in a couple oe other industries: the entertainment industry and I co-own a professional fireworks company.
H+S nonsense in this industry is nothing compared to the fireworks game! How's about earthing the iso containers used to store the fireworks at two opposing corners for lightning protection, despite them being inside another building which also had to have full lightning conductor system and there being much taller buildings and trees which are far more attractive to lightning very close by?


I think the biggest problem is the difference between the H+S law which is generally pretty sensible and just requires you to stop and make sure you are aware of the risks and avoid them where possible, and the H+S culture fuelled by overzealous mini-hitler's, insurance companies, newspapers and blood sucking vampires (lawyers)

 

[chrish_1977]

I hope your not calling me ignorant, and no I haven't worked on those types, the most teeny was glow worm, and that outer casing doesn't expose any if the combustion chamber, all I ever expose is the bit where I need I do my part no more no less, I may not have 20 years experience but I can read instructions, I do jot think in gas safe so do not feel the need to pull a boiler apart just to get at the electrics inside, common sense does rule I'm afraid. Rant over

 

[snoopydo]

no offence was ment by the "ignorance is no defense" to yourself, it just a phase thats i used to make the point that a manufacturer cant be blamed for a persons mistakes because they do not understand something. Im glad you take the time to read instructions and want to follow them.

Its quite common for me to find a incorrectly fitted case when performing a quality control/ snaggs on some of the contracts i work on. Probably more times than not its the gas engineer whos left it rather then the sparks. I normally find a woodscrew holding it on because the case screws have been lost. I had a job recently where a customer complained they got headaches when in/around the kitchen, a loose boiler case was all i found which had been removed recently by a "sparks" to change the time clock, i found no proof that this was causing a spillage of fumes, but it made me think.

I wonderd what knowledge and atitude the electrical industry had about the issue, from the limited response of this forum it seems that the issue has never been discused or raised by any body. I would have thought that people would want to discuss it, not just claim health and safety madness or dismiss it like an insult because they have been doing the job for years. personally I would be happy for an electrican to perform work on such an appliance, especially knowing they had an understanding of what the case does and the importance of fitting it correctly, maybe if the issues were discussed it would decrease the risk of anybody leaving a case dangerous.

i honestly dont see a difference if a sparks leaves a dangerous live part, or a dangerous incorrectly fitted boiler case. Why should you not have good knowledge about both jobs to be able to perform your work in a safe manner?

Wether or not we like it, many trades are interlinked and there should be a good understanding of each others trades and rules, im sure there are plenty of things plumbers do that make you feel uncomfortable.

i can list some things sparks do that drive me mad sometimes, but im sure its because of a lack of discussion and understanding on both side.

 

[Silly Sausage]

snoopydo, can you give us one or two examples (Make/Model) of boilers where the outer casing is part of the combustion chamber? That's the way I'm reading this anyway!

 

[telectrix]

there are plenty of things plumbers do that make you feel uncomfortable.

would say uncomfortable is not an appropriate word. murderous is more apt for pipes installed on cables, pipes run in front of consumer units/sockets etc., cables blowtorched, floorboards butchered, tools abused or nicked.hate the wet-pants brigade.rant over.

 

[snoopydo]

snoopydo, can you give us one or two examples (Make/Model) of boilers where the outer casing is part of the combustion chamber? That's the way I'm reading this anyway!

all the worcester bosch greenstar range like 28i junior, 30 si, cdi classic....... apart from the new compact model which has been designed to allow wiring without removal of the case. an actual selling point pushed by bosch.

vaillant ecotect plus range

baxi GA range

viessmann vitodens range

to name some i have fitted. there are plenty out there.

 

[snoopydo]

there are plenty of things plumbers do that make you feel uncomfortable.

would say uncomfortable is not an appropriate word. murderous is more apt for pipes installed on cables, pipes run in front of consumer units/sockets etc., cables blowtorched, floorboards butchered, tools abused or nicked.hate the wet-pants brigade.rant over.

there is a difference tho between being a idiot (which plenty of plumbers are i agree) and knowing what your doing is wrong, and doing something that you dont understand is wrong. Being somebody who has worked as both trades i think both trades are as bad as each other LOL

 

[telectrix]

can't say i've ever damaged water pipes when installing cables ( drilled into a couple when there's been no indication that they were there ). i've never run conduit across sink taps or over the top of a bog seat. never borrowed a precision screwdriver off a plumber and then hit it with a hammer to make holes in masonry,never used a blowlamp on plastic water pipes, and never, ever, nicked a plumber's tools. ( on just 1 domestic site i lost a voltstick, a socket tester and a £50 set of klauke terminal drivers. all found in the plumber's van after i kicked off.)