Bonding to gas and 544.1.2

[The Ghost]

Called today as client wanted boiler serviced/fixed. Gas safe man looked at meter boxed outside and said "No bonding! No fix!" Called me to assess. So...Clearly bonding x 2 are leaving the CU. Correct size. Test to water and Gas outside and readings below/within 0.05 ohms continuity. Suggesting there was indeed bonding connected as a previous electrician had confirmed the same. My consideration is looking at the above reg it says ...or at the point of entry to the building... Now how do you read that? Does it mean
A: the external point of entry
B: the internal point of entry
I have always assumed it is a matter of where it enters the building inside. Therefore, as in this case the bonding is probably connected under the floorboards inside the front living room as readings do indicate, and evidence of bonding cables leaving CU. What is your view?
Anyway it is clear that we must provide bonding to the outside gas meter so that work can go ahead and satisfy the gas man. Seems a bit silly to me but what else can you do.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Regs say point of entry, nothing about inside or out.

 

[Toneyz]

I had this argument concerning a second-floor gas pipe ran from an external meter up on the outside wall through the wall to isolator valve to combi boiler it was bonded after the isolating valve. expected the 10mm earth to run from the flat outside to the meter showed him regs book still wouldn't have it. As far as I was concerned it was installed to regs left him to it to explain to the builder why 8 earth wires had to be run down the external walls.

 

[buzzlightyear]

Main bonding - Green and yellow conductors that connect metal pipes (gas, water or oil) from inside a building to the main earthing terminal of the electrical installation. Main bonding connections may also be made outside the building, for example where a semi-enclosed gas meter box is installed outside and it is not possible to install a bond to the gas installation pipework indoors.

 

[KentSparky]

what in side. new build .me don't think so . you must make a judgement on that .

Inside the property as opposed to outside the property is the judgement I am happy with

 

[netblindpaul]

you better tell all the sparks in uk their are doing it wrong gas out side meter .

If you want to comply with BS 7671 then that states that it must be after entry to the premises, or words to that effect.
If you put it outside then it is a deviation that must be noted.
Then, if you bond outside, you must defer to gas regulations as to how you bring the cable into the premises, if, you do this within the meter enclosure, and that is the law of the land, not some industry recommendation such as BS 7671.

 

[netblindpaul]

Main bonding - Green and yellow conductors that connect metal pipes (gas, water or oil) from inside a building to the main earthing terminal of the electrical installation. Main bonding connections may also be made outside the building, for example where a semi-enclosed gas meter box is installed outside and it is not possible to install a bond to the gas installation pipework indoors.

So, where is that from?

 

[The Ghost]

Well as I said originally the question I was pondering was what did it mean ...at the point of entry into the building...? Is the point of entry when it gets inside or the point of entry where it starts to go inside. So if a person is at the front door they are ...at the point of entry... inside the front door they have entered the building so entry has been achieved. Ok maybe I think too much. You see in the olden days there were no gas meters outside in domestic. So it was all fairly clear, and quite common to bond water and gas under the floor boards. Perhaps not the brightest idea in retrospect but accepted practice. It was just that gas safe man has the idea bonding has to be on the meter outlet pipe and viewable I presume. But then what is he doing judging on such a matter???

 

[Rpa07]

Main bonding - Green and yellow conductors that connect metal pipes (gas, water or oil) from inside a building to the main earthing terminal of the electrical installation. Main bonding connections may also be made outside the building, for example where a semi-enclosed gas meter box is installed outside and it is not possible to install a bond to the gas installation pipework indoors.

It’s so obvious that you copied and pasted Buzz - or did you find you glasses!

 

[KentSparky]

Regs say point of entry, nothing about inside or out.

Well as I said originally the question I was pondering was what did it mean ...at the point of entry into the building...? Is the point of entry when it gets inside or the point of entry where it starts to go inside. So if a person is at the front door they are ...at the point of entry... inside the front door they have entered the building so entry has been achieved. Ok maybe I think too much. You see in the olden days there were no gas meters outside in domestic. So it was all fairly clear, and quite common to bond water and gas under the floor boards. Perhaps not the brightest idea in retrospect but accepted practice. It was just that gas safe man has the idea bonding has to be on the meter outlet pipe and viewable I presume. But then what is he doing judging on such a matter???

The thing is quite simple.
If you always place your main bond on the inside of the property it will always be acceptable and compliant with bs7671.
If you decide to place your main bond outside the property there are times that will not be acceptable.
On that basis just bond inside and you can't go wrong. What is to debate?

 

[rolyberkin]

Just bond it! It really makes no difference whether inside or out as long as an appropriate clamp and common sense are used.

 

[KentSparky]

Just bond it! It really makes no difference whether inside or out as long as an appropriate clamp and common sense are used.

It makes a difference where the bond is if you are trying to do an R2 test and you have to go outside the property to get to the connection. Installing the cable outside is also more work for the electrician and additional cost for extra cable. Therefore your claim that it doesn't matter whether it's bonded inside or outside doesn't hold water. Inside is easier and cheaper.

 

[Octopus]

How b l o o d y stupid ...

You would have hoped that the gas regs simply referred to a regulation in BS 7671

Then there would be confusion, no ambiguity,

Ah, utopia

 

[buzzlightyear]

So, where is that from

Earthing and Bonding - https://www.----------------------------/guides-and-advice/around-the-home/earthing-and-bonding/

 

[johnduffell]

Not to mention the gas regs state that the gas pipe must always be bonded, if you test and it's not extraneous then there's no need to bond it at all, same goes for plastic water incomers.
I bet the gas guys would have a fit if you explained that to them though.
Anyway, that document posted by Murdoch only says they need to notify in writing, doesn't say they should refuse to proceed.

 

[Nigel]

Personally ‘at point of entry’ means when it enters the dwelling on the inside at the first most readily accessible point.