Boris Has It ...

[Zerax]

Well, the PPE isn't there is it. Switch on the news, you'll soon see yet another healthcare professional testifying to that fact.

It's difficult for me to see the government's response to this in a positive light. We all watched the pandemic grow in China, and their people started dropping like flies, and it spread beyond Chinas borders to other nations where their people started dropping like flies, and then it arrived here, and it spread and we all know what is going to happen. It didn't happen overnight. Any simpleton could have predicted this.

Why did our leaders wait until the pandemic had already taken hold here before taking action? Why did they wait until just 2 weeks ago to request industry start thinking about building ventilators, knowing full well how unprepared the NHS is for this. Why have they ordered 10000 ventilators from a company that doesn't build ventilators, when there are companies that do, and are all ready to do so? Why did they miss the deadline for the EU procurement scheme, blaming it on a communications mix up? Why weren't they stockpiling medicine, PPE, and testing kits back in January?

Wow... you're a genius !! If only you were running the NHS we wouldn't have any problems at all...

You know far more than all the hundreds of experts that have been brought in over the years to reform an organisation that is so vast and so seeped in it's own culture that it's un-reformable. An organisation that has been put on a pedestal and worshipped by every single politician for the last 30 years... and that pedestal just gets higher and higher...

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Wow... you're a genius !! If only you were running the NHS we wouldn't have any problems at all...

You know far more than all the hundreds of experts that have been brought in over the years to reform an organisation that is so vast and so seeped in it's own culture that it's un-reformable. An organisation that has been put on a pedestal and worshipped by every single politician for the last 30 years... and that pedestal just gets higher and higher...

Are you serious?
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Do you really think this governments response has been adequate?

 

[davesparks]

My post did not say the government needed to stockpile every piece of equipment for every eventuality indefinitely. It said they could see what was coming from January, having watched it all unfold in China, and have had chance to act much sooner.

There is not enough PPE to go round. What is there has been diverted to the NHS, and care homes, nursing homes etc are missing out. Turn on BBC news 24 and sooner or later you will see this

PPE! Gloves, masks, hand sanitiser! Generic medical stuff

Indeed once they knew about the virus they would have started preparing for it, but there is only so much equipment they could source between January and now. Every country would have been doing the same and there will only have been a finite number of units available.

Add to this the fact that it probably all relies on some components which are made in China, which unfortunately was on lockdown.

Is it a lack of PPE or a lack of logistics?

It is impossible for us to know what is going on behind the scenes, but I think the government response so far has been pretty good.
They managed to stockpile enough money to keep the vast majority of the country going whilst a lot of people are not at work.
They had new, broad reaching and complex legislation before parliament so quickly that it must have been thought about and drafted/templated long before this virus was identified.

 

[andyb]

Wow... you're a genius !! If only you were running the NHS we wouldn't have any problems at all...

You know far more than all the hundreds of experts that have been brought in over the years to reform an organisation that is so vast and so seeped in it's own culture that it's un-reformable. An organisation that has been put on a pedestal and worshipped by every single politician for the last 30 years... and that pedestal just gets higher and higher...

This is rubbish and abusive.
All Pretty Mouth is doing is pointing out some obvious facts and asking reasonable questions. Just because it doesn't fit your blind narrative and you do not seem to be able to put together a coherent response, that others on here that I also disagree with can do, you post this garbage.

 

[davesparks]

Are you serious?
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Do you really think this governments response has been adequate?

The response has been calm, collected, well organised, taken in to account the best scientific advice we have, not over the top.

No it hasn't been perfect, but it could have been a hell of a lot worse.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Here are some corona statistics that are worth looking at, 1st the UK, 2nd Germany. Have a close look at them, particularly the total corona cases graph, and the daily new death graph. One major difference between the two countries responses to the pandemic are that Germany is testing way more than we are here.

United Kingdom COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

United Kingdom Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

Germany COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Germany Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

 

[Zerax]

Are you serious?
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Do you really think this governments response has been adequate?

Managing a pandemic is a very very complex task... and goes way beyond ordering 20,000 ventilators. Personally... I wouldn't know where to start... I'd rather have a go at designing the next fighter jet !

 

[littlespark]

If the govt had set these lockdown restrictions too early, ie when there was only a handful of cases in the U.K, people would have argued they were overreacting, and not done what was advised.... which is exactly what happened when the lighter restrictions came in.
Damned if they do, damned if they don’t.

 

[Zerax]

Here are some corona statistics that are worth looking at, 1st the UK, 2nd Germany. Have a close look at them, particularly the total corona cases graph, and the daily new death graph. One major difference between the two countries responses to the pandemic are that Germany is testing way more than we are here.

United Kingdom COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

United Kingdom Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

Germany COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Germany Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

The number of 'cases' is an utterly irrelevant figure... it is estimated that in the UK there are several million that have either had it or still have it ! And likewise in Germany...
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If the govt had set these lockdown restrictions too early, ie when there was only a handful of cases in the U.K, people would have argued they were overreacting, and not done what was advised.... which is exactly what happened when the lighter restrictions came in.
Damned if they do, damned if they don’t.

Agreed... I actually read two stories on the same news site this weekend... one article was banging on about how Boris & co. were getting tested above NHS frontline... and the other article was moaning about why they weren't tested sooner !!

 

[davesparks]

Here are some corona statistics that are worth looking at, 1st the UK, 2nd Germany. Have a close look at them, particularly the total corona cases graph, and the daily new death graph. One major difference between the two countries responses to the pandemic are that Germany is testing way more than we are here.

United Kingdom COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

United Kingdom Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

Germany COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Germany Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

Yes, those statistics are skewed by the fact Germany are obviously testing far more people than we are.
As far as I know we only test the cases which are hospitalised so our statistics will be lower total cases and a higher mortality rate.

My best guess would be that medical staff and laboratories time is better spent working on the serious cases than diagnosing those with mild cases.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

The number of 'cases' is an utterly irrelevant figure... it is estimated that in the UK there are several million that have either had it or still have it ! And likewise in Germany...

I'm sure you're right. And what of the deaths? Do you think that by only testing people once they have been hospitalised, you are increasing their risk of dying?
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What do the WHO recommend?

WHO call on countries to 'test, test, test' people with coronavirus symptoms | ITV News

The key in the battle against coronavirus is to "test, test, test", according to the World Health Organization. | ITV National News

www.itv.com

 

[Zerax]

I'm sure you're right. And what of the deaths? Do you think that by only testing people once they have been hospitalised, you are increasing their risk of dying?

The vast majority of people that have had the virus... have very mild symptoms or none at all. So are you suggesting that we should hospitalise everyone that has it ?

Testing is relevant now to find out who has had it (the antibody test) so that we can carry on without being locked down further.

A doctor was quoted the other day as saying that about ⅔ of all those that have died so far would have died anyway within the year... they were that unwell with other things wrong with them.

 

[Pretty Mouth]

The vast majority of people that have had the virus... have very mild symptoms or none at all. So are you suggesting that we should hospitalise everyone that has it ?

Testing is relevant now to find out who has had it (the antibody test) so that we can carry on without being locked down further.

A doctor was quoted the other day as saying that about ⅔ of all those that have died so far would have died anyway within the year... they were that unwell with other things wrong with them.

Zerax. I have to ask you, are you being deliberately disingenuous?

 

[Zerax]

Zerax. I have to ask you, are you being deliberately disingenuous?

Which bit have I misunderstood ?

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Which bit have I misunderstood ?

It's ok mate, don't worry about it