Borrowed neutral question.

[schoe]

Just out of interest if i was to fit a new dual rcd split board and a came across a borrowed netural on a lighting circuit how could i resolve it?


Thanks Chris

 

[oxocube]

so, in my book this is a "borrowed live" and as such, the borrowed live should be removed and replaced with a feed from the upstairs circuit.

Thats a spanner in the works. lol

 

[telectrix]

more like a monkey wrench.

 

[Engineer54]

Not I, .....

Your now twisting things, to suit your misplaced argument. No-one here has said or implied that a shared neutral isn't potentially dangerous. You have been given the reason for using a common MCB for both lighting circuits. It's not ideal at all, it's not electrically dangerous either. Unfortunately, some householders cannot be swayed or convinced to have the remedial work done. ...Everything else has been said on this subject. Whether you like the outcome or not, it really doesn't matter the householder is either willing to pay or they are not, ..end of!!

 

[topquark]

If I may add my two cents worth having just read through the thread Ponty has rectified it, he's put the two (well one and a half) circuits on the same MCB, which whilst not an ideal solution; is fine in most circumstances. The possible neutral overload has now been avoided, if it keeps taking the out the MCB, then it almost certainly wasn't safe before.

The premise of the debate seemed to be centered around an inference of Ponty saying it wasn't dangerous, if he thought it wasn't dangerous he wouldn't have rectified it.

 

[Engineer54]

Here we go again!!! This again, ....getting too silly for words!!!

 

[telectrix]

No - the customer does not have the final say when it comes to asking an electrician to contravene the Wiring Regulations.

if the customer won't pay, then you have to do the best you can with what you've got. remember BS7671 is non-statutory, and as long as you've left the installation safe, then the inconvenience of losing all lights in the event of a fault is the hard cheese of the skinfint customer, and if he falls down the stairs due to his own greed and miserlines, then TOUGH TITTY.

 

[Rappid]

No - the customer does not have the final say when it comes to asking an electrician to contravene the Wiring Regulations.

The customer does have the final say, providing it's safe to do so, it's a departure from BS7671. You cannot force the customer to have work done to comply with current regs i.e. CU change but no CPC on lighting, you cannot force the customer to have the lighting circuits rewired or put in CPC, you just make it safe by class 2 fittings, nylon screws and note it as a departure from BS7671

 

[ezzzekiel]

Shall we look, with proper multi-quoting, at what Ponty wrote?

nah lets not bother and just move on !!

 

[Engineer54]

Told you, ....this is going to be another of those threads that just gets too silly to contribute too further!!!

Funny how some contradict themselves, from one thread to another too!!...lol!!!

 

[Guest123]

Then you can't certify compliance with BS 7671.

With that out of the window, what alternative will you pick to prove compliance with P1?



Yes.

Which you've changed in a way which doesn't comply with BS 7671 - you said so yourself.



Nothing. Nor is there anything to say that there wasn't emergency lighting.



Can it be done in compliance with BS 7671?

My Q would be what would you do about it and indeed have you ever done it???

 

[Knobhead]

No - the customer does not have the final say when it comes to asking an electrician to contravene the Wiring Regulations.

The customer does have the final say. **** off! You’re just pumping the job up.

Enter Joe from the tap room of the local, “I can do that”!

 

[onions1066]

4mm protecting a 1.5kw shower? that would be a very poor shower/dribble. i think this thread could of been finished within 5 posts, get rid of the borrowed neutral if it's an option if you cant double the live conductors up in 1 mcb, nothing wrong with either option job sorted. to be honest i joined this forum just to have a look what was happening out in the electrical world outside my little bubble but there seems to be a lot of bitching on here. In my opinion electricians have it tough enough as it is anyway out there with all the undercutting, constant regulation changes and last but not least being hated by every other trade, to argue between each other is ridiculous. Come on guys feel the love :devilish:

 

[onions1066]

and finally yes i agree with Tony customer has the final say as long as it is withtin the scope of the regulations. nothing more to say surely

 

[telectrix]

Indeed.

But if you're registered with NICEIC/NAPIT etc, don't the terms of your registration say that your work must comply with it?

And where the work is done in England or Wales, if you can't claim compliance with BS 7671, what route will you take to ensure compliance with P1?



No - that's not tough titty, it's you failing in your duty of care to your client and acting unprofessionally.

my " duty of care to the client" is to advise him/ner what needs to be done to comply and advise of the cost. if the client won't pay for this work, are you suggesting that i do it for free? if so, you're welcome to come and work for me, for nothing, if that's your view.

 

[Guest123]

Simple - if I couldn't discharge my duty of care, if I couldn't act with professionalism, if I could not certify that to the best of my knowledge and belief my work complied with BS 7671 when in my professional opinion it should, I'd walk away.

Sorry you mis-understand my question,

What I meant was have you ever actually picked up a toolbox gone to a customers house and tried doing any of this sparky malarky for real....or just sat behind your monitor surrounded by every electrical textbook in christendom waiting to multiquote & belittle anyone that dares to have an opinion of their own which doesn't happen to match yours???