Brexit. We’re out!

[andyb]

socialist policy.. "to each accordong to their needs, from each acording to their means"

translated ... "take it from those who graft, and give it to the ide layabouts"

So you class yourself as an idle layabout Tel?
Because your whole life you've paid less than those whith more means than you.

 

[telectrix]

So you class yourself as an idle layabout Tel?
Because your whole life you've paid less than those whith more means than you.

not prcentage wise. i can assure you.

 

[Intoelectrics]

There is no way around it to make it completely "fair" across the board. I don't see how the current system can be improved. There are tax thresholds and tax credits benefits and so on... in place to try and make it "fair". The high earners will may more in monetary value but possibly less in relative personal value depending on what they earn etc... so on the face of it they could appear to be paying loads of tax, but relative to their earnings less than someone on low income. Tax evasion is rife and has been for thousands of years.. But it is getting more difficult for people to get away with it as things become more transparent due to the digital age we are in. But again this can be and I'm sure does get manipulated, especially by those that can afford to (high earners).

I did some work for a wealthy client a few years back. He was the biggest conman/crook I've ever come across. But one thing that struck me and I found a little odd considering how mean he was, was he paid no regard to parking laws. In that, he would park where ever when ever he liked. He would just pay the parking fine and considered this cost worth the convenience of parking as he feels. So my point being that, obviously the £60+ fine had no significant monetary value in his mind, just loose change. Where £60 to someone low earning could mean the difference between being fed that week or not!

 

[JK-Electrical]

??????​

 

[telectrix]

so let the buggers admit turkey, see how much they can fleece them for. any way, they can soon make up the deficit by sacking all them shiny arsed bureaurats on their 6 figure salaries and huge expense accounts.

 

[electric al]

Looks like the bigger EU countries are going to have to pick the slack up for the deficit . Leave them to squabble amongst themselves

 

[picturevalve]

Quotes:

" ' bit of luck the spanish armada will have to go back to fishing it's own waters now. a golden opportunity for pirate to raid without losing sight of his balcony.'

Not a chance

People have short memories.
The UK government sold out fishing in 1970's to get better access for financial services, same thing will happen again."

Also, when the common market had access to our fishing grounds the EU Provided grants to fishing operators to upgrade their fishing fleets to make them more efficient with the proviso that the grants were match funded by the host country. Result: The French and Spanish govt's provided the money, the Uk gov't. refused. There followed a peiod where British businesses sold their quota to better equipped foreign fleets.
Perhaps memories are too short to remember that Farage, oops sorry, farago.
And you know how that turned out, Nigel Farage blaming the eu!

 

[FatAlan]

Interestingly a government advisor reckons we don’t need a fishing or farm industry and we can model ourselves on Singapore. Hope we don’t upset our neighbours as it will be back to the good old British Bull Dog days of digging for victory.

 

[Darkwood]

At present we do not have a profitable farming industry and our fishing industry was decimated when we agreed to allow EU coastal nations fish most of our waters.
When I say we don't have a farming industry I mean EU regulations in the form of the Common Agricultural Policy has forced our farming industries into non profit subsidised entities, it was all planned to ensure EU dependency which of course failed on this occasion, as we were the second largest contributor to the EU and only one of about 4 who contribute any real amount our industries often ending up paying the cost of subsidising for poorer EU block nations, not only that but EU red tape put in place a system that saw millions of acres of land been bought up for foreign investors who just sat on it as empty land while recieving a very subsidy for simply owning it, in fact if the government actually bought the land in the first place that subsidy would have paid the back 10 fold...

Now we are leaving there is a desperate attempt to make us follow EU rules and laws and play a 'level playing field' basically they know how strong our position is and we could hit the EU really hard by competing on the doorstep, the thing is the EU cannot match or offer the tariffs and free trade we can now do with other countries due to the way its protectionist Single Market operates.

As long as Johnson stays tough on love and sticks to full divergence and pushes deals with the other big world players then we can only prosper and I mean an economic boost not seen in generations, even all our major contracts no longer have to be fielded to all EU members which again will boost our building sectors... if we give in to any EU demands then we lose most of our opportunities, we stick at a full exit and even WTO would be a better outcome then ending up eternally tied to EU in some regularity way, but as the EU are in a very bad negotiating position now all we will see is blustering, threats which eventually will turn to begging like solutions (PS .. that has already started from some major EU representatives who no longer can deny the position the UK is in)

 

[picturevalve]

At present we do not have a profitable farming industry and our fishing industry was decimated when we agreed to allow EU coastal nations fish most of our waters.
<snip>
Now we are leaving there is a desperate attempt to make us follow EU rules and laws and play a 'level playing field' basically they know how strong our position is and we could hit the EU really hard by competing on the doorstep, the thing is the EU cannot match or offer the tariffs and free trade we can now do with other countries due to the way its protectionist Single Market operates.

As long as Johnson stays tough on love and sticks to full divergence and pushes deals with the other big world players then we can only prosper and I mean an economic boost not seen in generations, even all our major contracts no longer have to be fielded to all EU members which again will boost our building sectors... if we give in to any EU demands then we lose most of our opportunities, we stick at a full exit and even WTO would be a better outcome then ending up eternally tied to EU in some regularity way, but as the EU are in a very bad negotiating position now all we will see is blustering, threats which eventually will turn to begging like solutions (PS .. that has already started from some major EU representatives who no longer can deny the position the UK is in)

The reason our fishing industry was decimated was because the govt. refused to support it in the same way the French and Spanish govt's did.
As for trade, Liz Truss's department issued a damning report yesterday on the prospects for the economy with a trade deal with the usa.
Read it here:

British economy 'to grow 0.16% at best under US trade deal'

Admission lays bare limited benefits of ‘ambitious’ agreement with Donald Trump

www.theguardian.com

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More memory refreshing here:

EU countries BUY up British fishing quotas BEFORE Brexit

BRITAIN’s hopes of taking back control of its seas look to be in jeopardy after it was revealed that European countries are rapidly buying up the UK's fishing quotas ready for Brexit.

www.express.co.uk

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Columnists | Express.co.uk

Express columnists. The Daily Express and Sunday Express columnists among them Ann Widdecombe, Vanessa Feltz, Frederick Forsyth. Opinion and analysis from columnists

www.express.co.uk

 

[Darkwood]

@picturevalve ... when you source your info from the uk press it's not a good rebuttal regardless of their leaning, please cite me the tabled discussions in full which in any real trade deal are often private with just a few deliberate leaks to fuel political agendas regardless of them been well out of context, if what the papers said about brexit were true we would not be where we are now.

 

[picturevalve]

Hi darkwood, I don't see any citations in your posts. This is a good summation of the present situation:

Britain's fishy role in the quota-hopping scandal

Foreign vessels are legally taking a large chunk of the UK's fishing quota. But it is our own government's double-think and double-talk that is to blame rather than the minefield of EU rules, says John Lichfield

www.independent.co.uk

I don't have the time to "trawl" through the endless eu and gov't documents to find the exact data. As the article above states the decline of our fishing ports was mainly due to Icelandic legislation, the sale of quotas has been documented for years in all the papers.

 

[Darkwood]

Hi darkwood, I don't see any citations in your posts. This is a good summation of the present situation:

Britain's fishy role in the quota-hopping scandal

Foreign vessels are legally taking a large chunk of the UK's fishing quota. But it is our own government's double-think and double-talk that is to blame rather than the minefield of EU rules, says John Lichfield

www.independent.co.uk

I don't have the time to "trawl" through the endless eu and gov't documents to find the exact data. As the article above states the decline of our fishing ports was mainly due to Icelandic legislation, the sale of quotas has been documented for years in all the papers.

My point was we had to give up the majority of our fishing grounds when we first joined, that was balanced out with access to Icelands fishing grounds but if I recall it was 2012 that Iceland pulled which desimated our industries, the EU should have rebalanced the EU fishing quotas to reflect Iceland pulling out but like as always has been the case they ignored our pleas, they had no issue watching our industry crumble just so they kept the status quo with all the other coastal EU members.
The boot is well and truly on the other foot now and all those countries that voted down our request to larger access of our own waters to help preserve our industries are the very ones demanding we continue to give them full access... the irony is almost comical.
So when the UK holds out its hand for help we are ignored and our industries are decimated, now several EU nations are saying we cant block access because it would devastate their fishing industry - had they been amicable in the first place and redistributed allowance after Icelands pull out we wouldn't be where we are now and I would expect it would have been a mutual beneficial agreement that carried on post brexit.

 

[picturevalve]

We'll have to see if the gov't. of the day sells out the fishing industry in order to allow the financial sector full access.

 

[Darkwood]

I doubt full access is on any card, partial access maybe in the region of 15 - 20% as part of a deal as oppose to the 60+ % as it stands, also the issue the UK has had is the fish never recognised fishing allotted fields which often meant we had little to no access to the better fishing grounds, this is why we were buying fish from countries that caught it in our own waters and paying premium price for it.
Like I said, the only ones complaining here are the countries who blocked the rebalance of the fishing quotas and imho karma has struck.