Brexit. We’re out!

[Midwest]

Yeah I didn’t like Top Gear anyway.

 

[Deleted account]

About time the Licence fee was abandoned IMO, a load of rubbish on the BBC and unless you are Disabled, Non heterosexual or female you have no chance of employment there either these days lmao, what a shambles

TBH I have no problem with the BBC diversity in regard to colour, sex, orientation, religion etc....

in fact they have done brilliantly in that area.

but they have forgotten political diversity.

 

[MDJ]

TBH I have no problem with the BBC diversity in regard to colour, sex, orientation, religion etc....

in fact they have done brilliantly in that area.

but they have forgotten political diversity.

I don't think so Pal, they have gone too far with over promoting minorities rather than the best man or woman for the job, far to over the top, politically, yep I agree there they are so far left even Putin won't watch it

 

[Deleted account]

I don't think so Pal, they have gone too far with over promoting minorities rather than the best man or woman for the job, far to over the top, politically, yep I agree there they are so far left even Putin won't watch it

Agree to disagree on that one. Minorities have been under reprisented for years. In fact they still are, but the improvements are dramatic.

what you are seeing is a nearer normal representation. It’s just that it hasn’t been normal for years that when it happened so suddenly we all thought this isn’t right because we are not used to the true normal on the BBC.

cant believe I’m defending the BBC after slating it for biast, but that is absolutely a different debate.

 

[FatAlan]

I don't think so Pal, they have gone too far with over promoting minorities rather than the best man or woman for the job, far to over the top, politically, yep I agree there they are so far left even Putin won't watch it

Are you saying that they haven't employed the best people for the job then? ?

 

[MDJ]

Are you saying that they haven't employed the best people for the job then? ?

Yes lol

 

[FatAlan]

Yes lol

Probably the billion dollar recruitment issue along with the age old problem of 'jobs for the boys' i.e. who you know and not what you know which is a big issue across the board.

 

[andyb]

You've raised some excellent points and one that I was unaware of was the fact that UK cabinet members need not be elected members of parliament. I learn something new every day!

Special advisors can wield significant influence, but it should be remembered that decisions aren't ultimately taken by those advisors. How our elected MPs come to make decisions is their own business, but if we aren't happy about that process they may find themselves not being returned at the next election. Similarly if we are dissatisfied with individual MPs, or an entire government, we can throw them out at the next election.

The Council of the European Union makes laws by qualified majority and the manner in which they do so directly contravenes the UK's constitution.

I'm not sure that I follow your logic on the European Commission. It is the executive branch of government within the EU, yet only commission members get to decide who joins. Member states propose commissioners, but the commission reserves the right to reject those proposed candidates. It was though this system of self-appointment that Ursula Von Der leyen came to be president of the commission. A list of candidates was drawn up by member states in the European Council, yet each and every one of those candidates was rejected. To resolve this unfortunate state of affairs, the commission put forward their own candidate and the European Parliament duly voted again - unusually that vote provided a single option - Ursula Von Der Leyen - and even in a one horse race she almost failed to secure the presidency!

One other huge issue is the European Court of Justice. This court is one of the EU's seven institutions, but isn't counted as one of the three legislative institutions. Despite not being a legislative institution, the ECJ regularly and deliberately ignores EU treaties and rewrites them as they see fit. This single issue was probably the main reason we came to hold a referendum on EU membership. No matter what member states agree, the ECJ has the power to ignore that which it finds inconvenient and implement new laws as and when it pleases.

Would you accept only having a say in local council elections and then trusting those councillors to decide who should govern the whole country? Neither would I but, while not directly comparable, that's as close an analogy as I can think of


I'm glad we agree on the need for EU reform, but it was on this very subject that David Cameron was sent home with his tail between his legs and found himself in the position of either delivering the promised membership referendum or going down in history as yet another Prime Minister who failed to fulfil such a promise. Maybe the EU will undergo reform, but I suspect much of that would be window dressing and, at this point, any future reform comes too late for those who wish to make the case for continued UK membership. Horse, door, bolted.

We're not miles apart, I'd go as far as to say that I'm a lot less comfortable defending EU democracy than you are the UKs. My main point is that we're not a particularly democratic country.

However, I will say that the European Commision in my view is not too dissimilar to our own cabinet.
Legislation and direction comes from our cabinet, but it is parliament that has to vote it through. And like I say, our cabinet is appointed by the PM. The commision is appointed also but we're guaranteed at least one position on it.

The ECJ just rules on EU law as far as I know. If you're in any sort of international agreement you will need a court of some sort to sort out disputes. When we trade on WTO terms, who do you think will rule on any disputes? not our courts that's for sure. And once again, we had a judge on the court, I doubt we'll have one for the WTO, and though I don't know what court will oversee any disputes between ourselves and the US, you can bet it will be in America.

As for your local council analogy, I'd just say that we do. We elect one MP in the general election who then has a say in who governs the whole country.

I'll finish with saying that since you threw in the ECJ, I'll chip in with first past the post voting. Even I could see that, as much as I disliked them, UKIP were underrepresented in our parliament, as are the Greens now.

 

[nicebutdim]

We're not miles apart, I'd go as far as to say that I'm a lot less comfortable defending EU democracy than you are the UKs. My main point is that we're not a particularly democratic country.

However, I will say that the European Commision in my view is not too dissimilar to our own cabinet.
Legislation and direction comes from our cabinet, but it is parliament that has to vote it through. And like I say, our cabinet is appointed by the PM. The commision is appointed also but we're guaranteed at least one position on it.

The ECJ just rules on EU law as far as I know. If you're in any sort of international agreement you will need a court of some sort to sort out disputes. When we trade on WTO terms, who do you think will rule on any disputes? not our courts that's for sure. And once again, we had a judge on the court, I doubt we'll have one for the WTO, and though I don't know what court will oversee any disputes between ourselves and the US, you can bet it will be in America.

As for your local council analogy, I'd just say that we do. We elect one MP in the general election who then has a say in who governs the whole country.

I'll finish with saying that since you threw in the ECJ, I'll chip in with first past the post voting. Even I could see that, as much as I disliked them, UKIP were underrepresented in our parliament, as are the Greens now.

I don't think we are miles apart.

Your MP can table bills, or ammendments to bills, in parliament. This isn't something that might need to happen regularly, but this has led to some great (and some terrible) legislation, but it is a valuable part of our parliamentary process.

I commented elsewhere about FPTP and PR. There are pro's and cons to each, but my personal reservations about PR are drawn from living under regular political deadlock in NI. That same deadlock can often be witnessed in other parts of the EU and can be crippling for a country. Obviously there are many benefits to PR, but my personal opinion is that I don't like it.

The ECJ isn't a legislative body, but I brought it into the discussion as it has the power to create legislation without adhering to the rules, around which the EU is supposed to fuinction. As such it technically is a legislative body, but worryingly it can carry out this function without oversight.

 

[andyb]

I don't think we are miles apart.

Your MP can table bills, or ammendments to bills, in parliament. This isn't something that might need to happen regularly, but this has led to some great (and some terrible) legislation, but it is a valuable part of our parliamentary process.

I commented elsewhere about FPTP and PR. There are pro's and cons to each, but my personal reservations about PR are drawn from living under regular political deadlock in NI. That same deadlock can often be witnessed in other parts of the EU and can be crippling for a country. Obviously there are many benefits to PR, but my personal opinion is that I don't like it.

The ECJ isn't a legislative body, but I brought it into the discussion as it has the power to create legislation without adhering to the rules, around which the EU is supposed to fuinction. As such it technically is a legislative body, but worryingly it can carry out this function without oversight.

I've always been a defender of FPTP, I even voted for the status quo at the AV referendum. But since 2010 we've had a coalition and May spending a couple of billion to buy the DUP and I'm moving more to the PR side of things. Though I'm happy to admit I have no idea what type would be best for the UK.
Also I've had enough at last of my vote not counting, being in an ultra safe Tory seat.
Other countries make it work, and some seem to have endless coalitions. Probally won't happen.

 

[electric al]

The closest we came to PR was when the liberals under Clegg pushed for it as a condition for
giving their support to form a coalition. They settled on a diluted form - AV . That was a real chance for something they have long campaigned for wasted. Personally I dont think it will ever happen.