C.U Upgrade & Short cables...

[Carlos Arruda]

Hi all.

I have been meaning to ask this for quite sometime.

It seems to be common practice for a few electricians, some of which have been sparky for over 30 years, to had a small length of cable by adding a terminal block.

Is this really allowed?

It seems that if cables are short then rewiring would be the way to go but off-course, like anything this would add up to the cost.

Your honest opinion is, as always, very much appreciated.

Regards,
Albert

 

[Sintra]

Hi all.

I have been meaning to ask this for quite sometime.

It seems to be common practice for a few electricians, some of which have been sparky for over 30 years, to had a small length of cable by adding a terminal block.

Is this really allowed?

It seems that if cables are short then rewiring would be the way to go but off-course, like anything this would add up to the cost.

Your honest opinion is, as always, very much appreciated.

Regards,
Albert

It is perfectly acceptable to joint cables providing the methods used to joint the cables are compliant.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Hi all.

I have been meaning to ask this for quite sometime.

It seems to be common practice for a few electricians, some of which have been sparky for over 30 years, to had a small length of cable by adding a terminal block.

Is this really allowed?

It seems that if cables are short then rewiring would be the way to go but off-course, like anything this would add up to the cost.

Your honest opinion is, as always, very much appreciated.

Regards,
Albert

IMO Compression joint (crimp/butt splice) then heat shrink, if inside DB. If every cable is short then adaptable box with din rail and din rail connectors.

 

[Carlos Arruda]

It is perfectly acceptable to joint cables providing the methods used to joint the cables are compliant.

Thank you Sintra.

I was under the impression that this was unacceptable.

Regards,
Albert

 

[Pete999]

IMO Compression joint (crimp/butt splice) then heat shrink, if inside DB. If every cable is short then adaptable box with din rail and din rail connectors.

What Leesparky said

 

[amlu]

or read 6 pages worth of replies, topic on that question 2 weeks ago...
http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk...um/101487-extending-cables-consumer-unit.html

 

[Carlos Arruda]

or read 6 pages worth of replies, topic on that question 2 weeks ago...
http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk...um/101487-extending-cables-consumer-unit.html

Thank you Amlu.

I shall do.

Thanks.

 

[Carlos Arruda]

Some reading that was.

Thanks for a great source of information.

Much appreciated.

Regards,
Abert

 

[davesparks]

I went to quote for some remedials on Friday, it seems the person who did the EICR thought that connector blocks in a DB are a C1 needing to be replaced with insulated crimps!

Where do people get these ridiculous ideas from?

 

[Knobhead]

Where do people get these ridiculous ideas from?

Electrical Trainee training establishments. It’s an add on to the standard £5000 course but teaches the basic “rip the customer off” techniques. Very good value.

It seems that if cables are short then rewiring would be the way to go

I guess you paid the extra for the course.

 

[Carlos Arruda]

Electrical Trainee training establishments. It’s an add on to the standard £5000 course but teaches the basic “rip the customer off” techniques. Very good value.





I guess you paid the extra for the course.

Hi Tony.

Just to put your mind to rest, I did not paid extra for the course.

In fact, I am at the local government college and have had to fork £3.7K for my level 3 education.

My comment is only due to the various times tutors have mentioned that a joint cable, either by terminal block or grimp or whatever the method, will always be a week point and can add resistance to the circuit, sometimes enough to fail the basic R1+R2 test.

I too, did always wondered, hence my question here on the forum, to the likes of yourself and all the great experienced electricians that are part of this community, as I always thought that rewiring a whole house because cables are too small sounds a bit harse and would also add to the final quote.

Still, many thanks to you all, for all the comments and time taken to give your thoughts/experience to the likes of us, like myself, who are less elusive.

Many thanks.

Regards,
Albert

 

[Knobhead]

I can joint cables up to 33KV and they will carry full load. Your tutor doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

[Carlos Arruda]

I can joint cables up to 33KV and they will carry full load. Your tutor doesn't know what he's talking about.

Thank you Tony.

It is good to know that it is common practice and does not fall outside the regulations if done by the book.

On another note, please do correct me if I am wrong (Could well be) does the regs mention this anywhere? I can't remember having read anything on the Electrical Guide to Good Electrical Practice.

Once more, many thanks for your input. It is much appreciated.

Regards,
Albert

 

[telectrix]

carlos, i think your tutor should have said that a joint is a possible point of failure if done badly. a poorly terminated cable ccan also be a failure,

 

[Farmelectrics]

Why would they make connector blocks. Through crimps. Scotch casts etc if they weren't plowed to be used

 

[Farmelectrics]

Allowed.

 

[Welchyboy1]

I went to quote for some remedials on Friday, it seems the person who did the EICR thought that connector blocks in a DB are a C1 needing to be replaced with insulated crimps!

Where do people get these ridiculous ideas from?

Crimps in a cu do look a neater job and are easier to disguise however,

Its things like this is the reason i hate this industry sometimes, ive had more than a few occansions where ive given customers advice or installed some work for them, then another 'spark' has come along and rubbished it saying its 'illegal' and generally making us both look like muppets, no wonder the public find it hard to trust tradesmen

Last time was a rewire i was pricing for, the customer was suffering from extreme green goo leaking from all the sockets and switches even after she had it cleaned it returned after a few months, i said the only real cure was to rewire the old cabling, but was a fairly painless job as it was all sleeved with conduit in the walls and floorboards were exposed etc

Some nob head come in after me and tells her im talking rubbish, its 'illegal' to use the old steel conduit in the walls and needs to be ripped out and replaced with pvc capping, and thats where the goo is coming from anyway(and its actually a form of rust)!

As for extending cables, increasing the resistance of your cable readings....if thats the case, your joint is crap and you havent done your job properly, what the hell else are connector blocks for

(disclaimer. as long as they are adequatly rated and enclosed, not exposed and/or wrapped in tape, and are accessible for maintenance)

If thats what a college lecturer is teaching all the students what chance do we all have!

I think the average person whos tries to be an electrician simply hasn't got the intelligence level, not that you need to be a total genius(but it helps).

 

[Carlos Arruda]

carlos, i think your tutor should have said that a joint is a possible point of failure if done badly. a poorly terminated cable ccan also be a failure,

I believe you are correct telectrix.

We all (students) hold both our tutors with great respect and, I know even though I lack the field experience, there hasn't been a time when they couldn't answer me a question.

Sadly we lost one tutor as he's had enough of the paperwork that teaching has become and he's now back on the field.

If experience is anything to show, well, suffice to say that from all 4 business he contacted, they all offered him a job (he's worked for them in the past), so surely he knows his electrics.

Many thanks for your input.

Regards,
Albert

 

[Carlos Arruda]

Crimps in a cu do look a neater job and are easier to disguise however,

Its things like this is the reason i hate this industry sometimes, ive had more than a few occansions where ive given customers advice or installed some work for them, then another 'spark' has come along and rubbished it saying its 'illegal' and generally making us both look like muppets, no wonder the public find it hard to trust tradesmen

Last time was a rewire i was pricing for, the customer was suffering from extreme green goo leaking from all the sockets and switches even after she had it cleaned it returned after a few months, i said the only real cure was to rewire the old cabling, but was a fairly painless job as it was all sleeved with conduit in the walls and floorboards were exposed etc

Some nob head come in after me and tells her im talking rubbish, its 'illegal' to use the old steel conduit in the walls and needs to be ripped out and replaced with pvc capping, and thats where the goo is coming from anyway!!!

As for extending cables, increasing the resistance of your cable readings....if thats the case, your joint is crap and you havent done your job properly, what the hell else are connector blocks for

(disclaimer. as long as they are adequatly rated and enclosed, not exposed and/or wrapped in tape, and are accessible for maintenance)

If thats what a college lecturer is teaching all the students what chance do we all have!

I think the average person whos tries to be an electrician simply hasn't got the intelligence level, not that you need to be a total genius(but it helps).

I do agree with you to some extent. As for example, the course started with 29 students and we are now only 8. Maths was the main issue for the most.

And I do feel for the most honest sparkys out there who will try their best to do a decent job, maintaining a balance between what needs to be done vs keeping to the regs vs quote £. It is depressing not to get a job because some knuckle head who calls himself electrician, has under quoted us thus getting the job. Off course, the customer will likely (unless the house burns to the ground) never know that regulations haven't been either followed and/or meet. But sadly, in the times we are living, the customers are more than likely overlook the quality of a job well done in favor of the cheapest quote. Regrettably, I know.

Many thanks for the input.

Regards,
Albert (My second name if anybody wonders.)

 

[Deleted member 72666]

Hi Tony.

Just to put your mind to rest, I did not paid extra for the course.

In fact, I am at the local government college and have had to fork £3.7K for my level 3 education.

My comment is only due to the various times tutors have mentioned that a joint cable, either by terminal block or grimp or whatever the method, will always be a week point and can add resistance to the circuit, sometimes enough to fail the basic R1+R2 test.

I too, did always wondered, hence my question here on the forum, to the likes of yourself and all the great experienced electricians that are part of this community, as I always thought that rewiring a whole house because cables are too small sounds a bit harse and would also add to the final quote.

Still, many thanks to you all, for all the comments and time taken to give your thoughts/experience to the likes of us, like myself, who are less elusive.

Many thanks.

Regards,
Albert

If crimped by 'Tel's' worn out teeth then I'd agree!

 

[Knobhead]

One of the important things is getting the correct crimping tool, without that you’re snookered.

The lads will have up to date information on what’s available now, the set I have is 30 years old so no point me digging them out to look for the make. That said they’ve hardly seen much work so still as good as the day they were issued to me.

For MV work I’d still use weakbacks and solder.

 

[GB.Kayak]

I can joint cables up to 33KV and they will carry full load. Your tutor doesn't know what he's talking about.

Ahhh ... but T, you have a lifetime of training and hard won experience behind you. Furthermore, I d wager that the quality of your training far exceeded that which many 'training' companies provide today!

 

[Knobhead]

That’s an understatement kid.

Training has gone to the dogs I’m sorry to say.

 

[GB.Kayak]

That’s an understatement kid.

Training has gone to the dogs I’m sorry to say.

... I think I know that you are in retirement ... I should have been drawing my military pension by now but redundancy got in the way! I am old enough to be going through a mid-life crisis ... less of the young goat ... please?