Campsite PIR

[Matty o]

Been asked to do a Pir on a campsite with 12 hook ups
Due to the length of runs over 200m what's the correct way of dealing with the earth's i thought each post would have its own stake and one at the main board but this one doesn't but just relies on the swa.

 

[IQ Electrical]

Been asked to do a Pir on a campsite with 12 hook ups
Due to the length of runs over 200m what's the correct way of dealing with the earth's i thought each post would have its own stake and one at the main board but this one doesn't but just relies on the swa.

So where does the SWA derive it's 'earth' ?

 

[Deleted member 9648]

There are very specific regulations on camping/caravan hookups,including earthing and circuit protection in section 7 of the BRB....you will need to refer to this if you are doing a PIR or you will get it wrong......you cant just "think" each post should have its own rod....your report must only be based on the requirements of Bs 7671.

 

[nickblake]

Each point should have its own earth rod , which connects to the pen conductor of the caravan hook up , reg 708.553.1.14 ,and each hook up must have its own RCD reg 708.553.1.13 , a TNCS system should not be used on caravan hook ups and should comply with the requirements of reg 411.5 for a TT system look up section 708 page 190 of the regs and read up the requirments befor you carry out the inspection

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Each point does not require it's own earth rod....708.553.1.14 states "...the protective conductor of each socket outlet shall be connected to an earth electode and shall comply with the requirements of 411.5 for a TT system."
This does not mean each socket must have it's own electrode,but that each socket must be connected to an electrode.....that may be one electrode at the point of separation...(GN7,section on caravan site installs shows just such an arrangement).
Bear in mind that sockets may be grouped in blocks of 4....providing 4 rods at one point and ensuring resistance areas dont overlap would be impossible.
This would only apply if the supply was TNCS...a TNS earth can be used without any separation,perhaps this is the arrangement on the site the OP is testing.

Just "discussed" the same on another thread with engineer54.....the brown stuff may well hit the fan again

 

[nickblake]

Yes i understand what your saying and its your interpretaion of the regs and agree , like the majority of the regs alot of common sence is involved , and agree with the earthing arrangments , how ever if you have a caravan site with hook up points at several places round the site large or small with one earth rod by the feeder pillar really all depends on the ground conditions and material ie sand mud clay etc , it may be difficult to get the earth rod readings less than 200 ohms so by installing earth rods at every hook up point would make the installs more stable ,and easier to keep the readings less that 200 ohms its just my interpretation of the regs im not going to throw the brow smelly stuff at a fan mate too much respect for you to do that

 

[IQ Electrical]

Been asked to do a Pir on a campsite with 12 hook ups
Due to the length of runs over 200m what's the correct way of dealing with the earth's i thought each post would have its own stake and one at the main board but this one doesn't but just relies on the swa.

Surely if you intend to carry out periodic inspections on special locations, Guidance Note 7 is essential.

£25.00 for a wealth of information that can save your skin (and the user of the installation).

Add it to the next quotation you do on a special location.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Sorry Nick...wasnt thinking that any brown stuff would be coming from you

 

[Matty o]

Thanks
I have Guidance Note 7 but i wanted to make sure i going in the right direction at the moment there are no stakes just the swa.
Looks like i will be taking the brb to bed tonight for a read at lest i should have no problem getting off.

 

[Engineer54]

Matty,

To rely on a single rod for a caravan site with multiple caravans is to say the least, ''fool hardy'' no-matter what any one says to the contrary!! Each hook-up panel, whether it's supplying 4 pitches or just 1 pitch should be roded. If it's a TT system from origin, or from a separation point, then the SWA can link those electrodes thus giving a far better TT system design and more importantly a better Ra value giving the overall system, much better stability!!!

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Matty,

To rely on a single rod for a caravan site with multiple caravans is to say the least, ''fool hardy'' no-matter what any one says to the contrary!! Each hook-up panel, whether it's supplying 4 pitches or just 1 pitch should be roded. If it's a TT system from origin, or from a separation point, then the SWA can link those electrodes thus giving a far better TT system design and more importantly a better Ra value giving the overall system, much better stability!!!

Once again Bs 7671 and GN7 are "fool hardy"....While there may be advantages to multiple electrodes in some circumstances a PIR is ONLY concerned with deviations from Bs7671. If a single electode at the point of separation met the requirements for Ra (<200 ohms)then no code would be applicable.....you cannot ignore the requirements of Bs7671 on a PIR and apply your own regulations or preferences.

 

[Engineer54]

As i've told you before ....You stick to bunging in your single rod to cover all and any circumstances and your 200 ohms.. And very good luck to you!! But ''Any'' electrician worth his sort, will design and install a TT system a little better than your minimalist ideas.... This is a caravan site, a little more thought is required than your single cover-all rod....

 

[IQ Electrical]

We need to remember that this is a PIR and as such, only non-compliances to BS 7671:2008 should be commented on.

The system as described does comply even though better, high-integrity methods could be employed.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

As i've told you before ....You stick to bunging in your single rod to cover all and any circumstances and your 200 ohms.. And very good luck to you!! But ''Any'' electrician worth his sort, will design and install a TT system a little better than your minimalist ideas.... This is a caravan site, a little more thought is required than your single cover-all rod....

This is a PIR!!...not a DESIGN!!.....it would be unacceptable to apply your own rules to a PIR,the only consideration is the requirements of Bs7671 when coding.
The "minimalist" idea's are not mine,they are the minimalist idea's of the IEE,while you may consider yourself a higher authority than the IEE,this electrician who is in your opinion not worth his salt thinks not.
If you refer back to previous posts I have never stated that a single rod is the preferred option,what I take issue with is your assertion that Bs7671 which DOES NOT REQUIRE MULTIPLE RODS is incorrect,and your own preferred way is mandatory.It is not...when carrying out a PIR Bs7671 is what counts,not you.

 

[Engineer54]

This is a PIR!!...not a DESIGN!!.....it would be unacceptable to apply your own rules to a PIR,the only consideration is the requirements of Bs7671 when coding.
The "minimalist" idea's are not mine,they are the minimalist idea's of the IEE,while you may consider yourself a higher authority than the IEE,this electrician who is in your opinion not worth his salt thinks not.
If you refer back to previous posts I have never stated that a single rod is the preferred option,what I take issue with is your assertion that Bs7671 which DOES NOT REQUIRE MULTIPLE RODS is incorrect,and your own preferred way is mandatory.It is not...when carrying out a PIR Bs7671 is what counts,not you.

Yes it's only a PIR, and my mistake!!....

WirePuller, i keep trying to emphasize to you, that the Reg's are based on the minimum requirements, and they are NOT always the Best solution to a given situation!!! The fact that you keep referring to the Reg's minimal requirement for TT systems, no matter what type of installation, leads me to believe, that is what you will use in your work place.

Wanting to install any installation to a higher level than stated in the Reg's doesn't make one a ''Higher Authority''!!! That's just you trying to be clever!!! Every ''specified'' project i've ever worked on, that's been based on BS7671 has been of a higher standard than stated therein....