Can a junction box throw out a PIR?

[jjrules2]

Hi,

Unfortunately during the installation my client moved the position he wanted a PIR light, meaning even with excess cable and due to the progress of the house, I had to joint box a cable to extend to the new location.

So, the wiring goes like this.

CCU to switch - twin and earth
Switch to Junction box - three core and earth
Junction Box to PIR light one (one that moved) - three core and earth
Junction box to PIR lights two and three - Three core and earth

So basically I did take a 3c and earth from the switch to light one, back out to light two, ending at light three. But due to the moving location I had to install the joint box. Now I have installed the PIR lights and they remain permantly on when wired like this -

Switch -

Live from twin and earth goes in common with permanant (black) to lights
Neutral goes in connector block at back of switch box with grey to lights
Same with earth
Brown switched live from lights goes on it's own in L1.

Switch does nothing when turning on and off unless you remove the permanant live, then the switch works fine. But I have wired these up at work like this and the PIR works when dark and movement is detected, or if you turn the switch on!

Any help would be appreciated, i'm sure i'll get the sarcastic immature comments from the old boys as well :wink_smile:

 

[Octopus]

I think you should draw on a clean sheet of paper what you have described as you've lost me........

A minor tip, use brown in the 3 core as permenent live and sleeved black as s/l

Then it should become clear

 

[telectrix]

could be just down to requiring the power to be dropped for 30secs. then they might revert to auto operation. and for once me and murdoch differ. i use black for perm L and brown for switched.

 

[Dalf]

Agree with post above. I use the exact same colours, yet did come across a guy who used the grey as a s/l yest which nearly got me.

 

[jjrules2]

OK I have inserted an attachment. i hope this is clear. Thanks for your response, I will use those colours from now on but I currently have used black for permanant and brown for switched live. All connections at the lights are definitely right

 

[jjrules2]

I tried turning off the MCB for a bit with no joy.

Any idea? Strange one, didn't think having three on one would be so much trouble this is usually so easy!

 

[Richard Burns]

Although you say you have the connections correct, from what you describe I would say that if you moved the incoming line at the switch from C to L1 and then try the lights you may find they work correctly.

If this is not the case then it is time to read the instructions for the lights and see what weird and wonderful default settings you can have in place and work out how to get back to normal operation.

 

[jjrules2]

Thanks i'll try that. now you mention it this seems right. Thanks guys I appreciate your help.

 

[Sintra]

Check the lights individually as one faulty PIR will keep all lights on constantly.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

If it really is conected as per your drawing it'll work,I'd go with sintra,one faulty PIR is keeping the lot on.

 

[Englishman]

Agree with post above. I use the exact same colours, yet did come across a guy who used the grey as a s/l yest which nearly got me.

Brown as permanent, black as switch, grey as neutral.

Seems very much an age thing but the younger lads amongst us seem to do things that way.

 

[Geordie Spark]

Hi,

Unfortunately during the installation my client moved the position he wanted a PIR light, meaning even with excess cable and due to the progress of the house, I had to joint box a cable to extend to the new location.

So, the wiring goes like this.

CCU to switch - twin and earth
Switch to Junction box - three core and earth
Junction Box to PIR light one (one that moved) - three core and earth
Junction box to PIR lights two and three - Three core and earth

So basically I did take a 3c and earth from the switch to light one, back out to light two, ending at light three. But due to the moving location I had to install the joint box. Now I have installed the PIR lights and they remain permantly on when wired like this -

Switch -

Live from twin and earth goes in common with permanant (black) to lights
Neutral goes in connector block at back of switch box with grey to lights
Same with earth
Brown switched live from lights goes on it's own in L1.

Switch does nothing when turning on and off unless you remove the permanant live, then the switch works fine. But I have wired these up at work like this and the PIR works when dark and movement is detected, or if you turn the switch on!

Any help would be appreciated, i'm sure i'll get the sarcastic immature comments from the old boys as well :wink_smile:

Don't flatter yourself bonny lad!!


What makes you think you're worthy of special attention??

 

[telectrix]

Brown as permanent, black as switch, grey as neutral.

Seems very much an age thing but the younger lads amongst us seem to do things that way.

always done it with black as permanent. comes from wiring lighting circuits on gregs with em's on. allt the non-em's then had standard brown and blue then.

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

Brown as switch live!

 

[Badged01]

An interesting one and good to see someone has written down their design for the client so anyone inspecting or completing future alterations will understand the circuit layout!

As drawn, your circuit should work as advertised when ‘switched on’ and the junction box shouldn’t be having any effect on it at all. Each light is independent of the others having its own live, switch live (when the switch is on) and neutral. Interpreting the SL as only feeding the light when its own PIR operates, none of the other lights should have any effect on each other.

If you have a similar set-up working correct at your work then this would definitely be drawing me to thinking your problem may well be in the operation of the actual PIR lights themselves. I’d be looking at the instructions for how switch operation effects the light. E.g. if you switch on/off a few times within a set period that disables the PIR and the lights operate in ON/OFF mode from the switch. Another sequenced switching operation leaves the lights on permanently between certain light lux levels etc …… Changing the ‘P’ feed over to switching (as Richard suggests) would enable you to do this.

For my own edification I would be interested in knowing the outcome, so please do post the “solution” once you find it!