Can a junction box throw out a PIR?

[jjrules2]

Hi,

Unfortunately during the installation my client moved the position he wanted a PIR light, meaning even with excess cable and due to the progress of the house, I had to joint box a cable to extend to the new location.

So, the wiring goes like this.

CCU to switch - twin and earth
Switch to Junction box - three core and earth
Junction Box to PIR light one (one that moved) - three core and earth
Junction box to PIR lights two and three - Three core and earth

So basically I did take a 3c and earth from the switch to light one, back out to light two, ending at light three. But due to the moving location I had to install the joint box. Now I have installed the PIR lights and they remain permantly on when wired like this -

Switch -

Live from twin and earth goes in common with permanant (black) to lights
Neutral goes in connector block at back of switch box with grey to lights
Same with earth
Brown switched live from lights goes on it's own in L1.

Switch does nothing when turning on and off unless you remove the permanant live, then the switch works fine. But I have wired these up at work like this and the PIR works when dark and movement is detected, or if you turn the switch on!

Any help would be appreciated, i'm sure i'll get the sarcastic immature comments from the old boys as well :wink_smile:

 

[Badged01]

.... and for what its worth I go with the "Brown permanent, black switch and grey neutral" call

 

[LED Lighting]

Ok the issue can be one of 3 things, 1. delay on the lights needs to reset after energising the circuit. 2. Switch is on! 3. The PIR is picking up movement or they are microwave lights and picking you up from outside the door. 4. You have really messed up! With regards to colours (apart from each to their own) I always use brown for PL, Gary for SL and black for neutral. The reason behind this: Brown is live how ever you look at it. Black used to be Natural so if someone cut into the 3C & E then they have some idea what might be what. Gary is a phase, or can be both live and can be at 0v.

 

[Geordie Spark]

Ok the issue can be one of 3 things, 1. delay on the lights needs to reset after energising the circuit. 2. Switch is on! 3. The PIR is picking up movement or they are microwave lights and picking you up from outside the door. 4. You have really messed up! With regards to colours (apart from each to their own) I always use brown for PL, Gary for SL and black for neutral. The reason behind this: Brown is live how ever you look at it. Black used to be Natural so if someone cut into the 3C & E then they have some idea what might be what. Gary is a phase, or can be both live and can be at 0v.

Gary in 60 seconds - YouTube

 

[westmac]

When the colour changes became mandatory and colour equivalence cards were being given out like sweets they order stayed the same.

Red - Brown
Yellow - Black
Blue - Grey

I think it's fair to say they everyone used the old red, yellow and blue as line, neutral and CPC so the official line if you follow the convention is that grey will be neutral.

 

[itselectric]

No wonder our trade is falling apart when we cannot agree on basic connections. Surely there is a means of getting everyone to agree on which colour connections are standard.
For what it is worth I go with post 19 for my connections.

If one of us was to follow another onto a job with different views on wiring colours it creates confusion. Where do we standardise.

 

[Geordie Spark]

sic connections. Surely there is a means of getting everyone to agree on which colour connections are standard.
For what it is worth I go with post 19 for my connections.

I think you would have more success in getting a regiment of horses to all pi$$ at the same time.

 

[Badged01]

Surely there is a means of getting everyone to agree on which colour connections are standard.

And do away with the fun of never knowing which wire is the "live" wire ..... you will be wanting us to practise safe isolation on circuits before we do any work next :smug:

 

[Geordie Spark]

Eric Burdon once said of The Animals "It was like a wagon being pulled by five horses - except the horses were all pulling in different directions"

The Animals - Send You Back To Walker - YouTube

 

[Geordie Spark]

And do away with the fun of never knowing which wire is the "live" wire ..... you will be wanting us to practise safe isolation on circuits before we do any work next :smug:

Only a true optimist or a complete lunatic would even think of trying that!!

 

[markc123]

Probably already been mentioned, haven't read the post properly....

You say the job was too far on to rectify the change of posistion (i hope you charged extra for alterations) what have you done with the junction box? And if it's what im thinking, have you used a MF JB ?

 

[HandySparks]

I think it's fair to say they everyone used the old red, yellow and blue as line, neutral and CPC...

Really?

 

[markc123]

No wonder our trade is falling apart when we cannot agree on basic connections. Surely there is a means of getting everyone to agree on which colour connections are standard.
For what it is worth I go with post 19 for my connections.

If one of us was to follow another onto a job with different views on wiring colours it creates confusion. Where do we standardise.

I too use Grey as Neutral and Black as CPC and i can see what you're saying about the confusion because everyone seems to use different....

However, i can't see what it matters really because we're supposed to sleeve it accordingly anyway so anyone else working on it will know what is used for what.

 

[ackbarthestar]

This appears to be an old thread although the colours are still there.
Old New application
Red - Brown = PL
Yellow - Black = SL or PE
Blue - Grey = Neutral
However, I'm happy to work with whatever colours are thrown at me...

 

[Lister1987]

I had it drilled into me that you make is as near to modern as you could, which meant sleeving black as CPC sleeved/taped (to remove old colours from the equation) Brown as L (as is standard) and Grey as N (oversleeved/taped blue)

 

[pc1966]

black as CPC sleeved/taped (to remove old colours from the equation)

Why?

I really don't get that statement, though I have seen it elsewhere.

Black and grey are both phase colours now, so it make zero difference which you choose. Given the legacy of black = neutral = safer if anything it ought to be encouraged!