Can you really become a spark without an apprenticeship-opinons?

[Davey101]

This is in no way meant to be derogatory to anyone, I was just interested in peoples opinions.
I see a lot on TV and in the papers of courses to train to be a spark, plumber, plasterer, or whatever.
There are actually signs on roundabouts by me, advertising a 2 or 3 day course to learn how to be a plasterer!
The idea of someone doing a 6 or 12 month course, and then going out and starting their own firm seems strange to me.
My question is, how well do these courses prepare people for the realities of being a tradesman?
I know from my personal experience that college was of very little use to me. I learnt all my skills on site, and to be honest, I only really started to become a half decent spark later on in my apprenticeship.
For instance, working on a wooden test board, with sockets neatly screwed in front of you wont be of much benefit when you walk into a greasy old factory with god knows how many types of wiring, trying to figure out why one of their machines or kettle has just stopped working.
It surprises me how little some apprentices, or more especially younger electricians know, beyond how to fix conduit to a wall, or pull a cable in (old fart alert)

Saying that, some people will be good at whatever they turn their hand to, and to be honest, you dont have to be a member of mensa to be a spark. Different people learn differently as well, some will be able to sit in a classroom, absorb everything, and go out and use it, personnally, I think I need more 'reinforcement' of idea's and skills.
Age may have something to do with it as well, most 16/17 year olds arent that interested, someone in there 20s/30s who has actually made the choice to be a spark may take to it a lot quicker.

Not having a go here, and I havent got an axe to grind, or a hidden agenda, just trying to gauge peoples opinions, I'd be happy to be proved wrong

 

[Guest123]

I shall be keeping a beady eye on this one gents....be nice!!!

 

[Davey101]

Sorry if this is a leading question.
I would have posted in the 'pub', but apparently I have to be self employed to get in?
Feel free to delete if this is going to cause twouble

 

[1ManRiot]

This is in no way meant to be derogatory to anyone, I was just interested in peoples opinions.
I see a lot on TV and in the papers of courses to train to be a spark, plumber, plasterer, or whatever.
There are actually signs on roundabouts by me, advertising a 2 or 3 day course to learn how to be a plasterer!
The idea of someone doing a 6 or 12 month course, and then going out and starting their own firm seems strange to me.
My question is, how well do these courses prepare people for the realities of being a tradesman?
I know from my personal experience that college was of very little use to me. I learnt all my skills on site, and to be honest, I only really started to become a half decent spark later on in my apprenticeship.
For instance, working on a wooden test board, with sockets neatly screwed in front of you wont be of much benefit when you walk into a greasy old factory with god knows how many types of wiring, trying to figure out why one of their machines or kettle has just stopped working.
It surprises me how little some apprentices, or more especially younger electricians know, beyond how to fix conduit to a wall, or pull a cable in (old fart alert)

Saying that, some people will be good at whatever they turn their hand to, and to be honest, you dont have to be a member of mensa to be a spark. Different people learn differently as well, some will be able to sit in a classroom, absorb everything, and go out and use it, personnally, I think I need more 'reinforcement' of idea's and skills.
Age may have something to do with it as well, most 16/17 year olds arent that interested, someone in there 20s/30s who has actually made the choice to be a spark may take to it a lot quicker.

Not having a go here, and I havent got an axe to grind, or a hidden agenda, just trying to gauge peoples opinions, I'd be happy to be proved wrong

I dont think they do- I think you're absoultely right in the rest of your post in that site experience is essential. No doubt many people starting these courses don't realise that and as such leave with a lighter wallet and a piece of paper and are no better off than when they started!

Underpinning knowledge is essential, no doubt about that, but then so is some form of experience, and being the vicous circle that it is, getting one without the other is difficult.

I'm not a sparky btw- not yet anyway, I'm one of the chumps trying to find a course and a company who'll take me as a trainee/mate!

 

[Amp David]

They will never prepare anyone for the reality of the real world. Thats why you see so much crap workmanship out and about these days.

I've experianced the 'distance learning' method first hand and the're not just full of wonder course wanabees either. For example, at one practical/assessment session I attended, there were 3 guys, probably in there late 30's early 40's, who all thought they were the mutts nuts. All driving the fully lettered up vans, full of tools and gear and all employed or working in the trade.

Why then did 2 of the 3 fail a simple online multiple choice exam? I'm talking about one of the C&G 2330 L2 exam here and nothing of any difficulty.

Just goes to show that even some of the 'Proper Electricians' in this world arn't really as good as they would like to think. The term I prefer to use is 'All the gear and no idea.'

 

[Des 56]

Given that apprentiships and on going employment has been reduced to a trickle compared to years ago,perseved shortages of skilled labour in many trades are now being satisfied by unconventional short course trade skills
The course providors have cottoned on to this shortage and are providing a service that has been neglected by the electrical industry/government
Obviously these courses wont give the all encompassing training that was the trade electrician
The people who take these courses are sometimes mis led into thinking that the trade can be learnt in such short periods,you cant blame people for trying to become skilled whether the training is standard or short cut

The unfortunate part of these training regims is that part p minimum qualification acceptance seems to have been set too low by the government, and the nic especially, accepting that minimum standard.
Along with the rediculous defined scope nonesense it has led to inexperienced people flooding the market

These inexperienced people may struggle to get employment when competing with an apprentice trained and may struggle with that lack of training when trying self employment

All in all,I it seems the pitfalls are glossed over to the newcomers,which is a shame ,given the very high costs of courses that should be government funded to provide adequate skilled labour for the country

 

[Amp David]

Given that apprentiships and on going employment has been reduced to a trickle compared to years ago,perseved shortages of skilled labour in many trades are now being satisfied by unconventional short course trade skills
The course providors have cottoned on to this shortage and are providing a service that has been neglected by the electrical industry/government
Obviously these courses wont give the all encompassing training that was the trade electrician
The people who take these courses are sometimes mis led into thinking that the trade can be learnt in such short periods,you cant blame people for trying to become skilled whether the training is standard or short cut

The unfortunate part of these training regims is that part p minimum qualification acceptance seems to have been set too low by the government, and the nic especially, accepting that minimum standard.
Along with the rediculous defined scope nonesense it has led to inexperienced people flooding the market

These inexperienced people may struggle to get employment when competing with an apprentice trained and may struggle with that lack of training when trying self employment

All in all,I it seems the pitfalls are glossed over to the newcomers,which is a shame ,given the very high costs of courses that should be government funded to provide adequate skilled labour for the country

Too True .

 

[not clever]

No you dont.

 

[m4tty]

no you dont.

?? ?

 

[Davey101]

?? ?

I think he meant no you cant (become a spark).

So, basically a lot of people who do a short(ish?) course are being mislead into thinking they will be set for life after doing one. I wonder how many people have done one of these courses, and not ever got a job or career out of it, then go on to do something else, having completley wasted their money?

There must be some people in here who have had a good experience?

 

[Amp David]

A good experience of what may I ask?

 

[ryanryan]

you should be required to be Time served before even being considered for part p

 

[Davey101]

A good experience of what may I ask?

A good experience with a 'fast track' type of course, without an apprenticeship.

 

[Darkwood]

We had a recent qualified electrician who when asked how many 3's were in 24 answered six! then after he heard the tone of my voice he said only joking its 7, then i walked of shaking my head, i recall the college didnt take you on without a high maths grade and physics too in my days, now it seems the goverment have watered everything down to keep them off the streets.
I know this wont reflect every persons experiences but of the last 7 apprentices who qualified we only kept one as the lack of basic maths, english and practical skills was a concern to say the least. Im not trying to cause offence the young trainees because the failure isnt at their doorstep its the education system and lack of punishment for bad behaviour has bread a generation of people who lack respect for their elders.
Note! their are many that excell and can think for themeselves and my apologies to those but those who lack the essential learning and skills are now flooding the market giving us so called qualified cowboys.

 

[Amp David]

you should be required to be Time served before even being considered for part p

In some cases, even being time served doesn't guarantee the competance of some folk.