Can you Self-Certify somehow to avoid paying for a scheme?

[Dan]

As a non-electrician (I make the tea in the forum imaginary office, I think the tea is real though) I wonder, is there a way to avoid a certification scheme fully and self-certify or perhaps use a council per-job or something?

It does seem like, now knowing most companies are somehow heavily connected, I think, something I'm learning more about soon), there's a bit of a Monopoly.

If I had a van, no sticker would go on it unless THEY PAID ME to advertise them.

But have I got it wrong? And there is now way to provide services without these schemes?

(Made a new tag "AskingForAMate" haha suitable for this thread as I'm asking for a mate myself here. Didn't work

I was wary about these GIFS we can add into post (I think we can all add them can't we?) as I thought if GIFFY go bump there could be 10000 images now suddenly not loading. But I think they've been out a while now. Maybe we should use more?

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[timhoward]

It's theoretically possible. In reality it doesn't really work.
The cost per job is high (about £200), so if this is passed onto customer you won't win the job in the first place (in all likelihood). By contrast I pay £4 to a scheme per job to notify LABC for me. (Obviously several hundred pounds for membership too)
Not all councils actually offer the service even though they are supposed to. I've come across people trying to do this and being told "no" by the council.

 

[Rockingit]

The challenge with this becomes standards. If you cast your ( @Dan ) memory back to the dark days on here you'll remember that a bunch of us took Part P to task, and a certain Mr Skelton even went to parliament to give personal testimony on exactly your point - that it's a monopoly that gives no real standards to consumers. The problem then becomes one of if we remove the scams (and let's be honest here, that's what they are) then as in the UK we don't have a legal framework that defines a competent, qualified electrician (unlike most other developed countries), how do you establish a baseline of standards that says that Fred is competent to self-certify that the work he did on Mrs Jones' house satisifies Part P, won't kill anyone, and if it does then at least he's insured. Local Authority building control have no interest whatsoever in changing this as it simplifies what is otherwise a cumbersome process, they're overworked and now frequently undercut by the independent cowboys anyway so it's literally just a tick-box arse covering exercise.

And as Tim says above, the alternative is cost prohibitive because if I go and do a £50 job for Mrs Jones that needs a Part P notification and am not a member of a scam then the council simply ring up another contractor on their books who IS a scam member and 2391 qualified to charge a day rate to go and inspect and sign it off - so Mrs Jones might as well have used them in the first place and saved herself my £50.

 

[timhoward]

A further issue is that the bar to get into the scams has been set at different heights at different times. You at least can't just waltz into one on a whim these days.

 

[littlespark]

I don’t know if it’s all of Scotland, or just my local council, but they are happy to accept my SJIB gold card without scheme membership.

I use the certificate forms uploaded onto the forum resources section by @happysteve

 

[James]

I never do domestic work for precisely the reasons above.
I might have a friend that does the occasional favour for family and friends. and lets face it, "his" chances of being picked up on it are slim to none.

 

[nicebutdim]

Part P only applies to part of the UK - granted that part covers the vast majority of the UK's population, but this variation highlights a certain issue.

I look south to ROI where it is illegal for anyone other than a registered electrical contractor to carry out electrical work. They aren't ----ing about with punishments either - fines up to €15,000 and up to 3 years in prison, with prosecutions taking place and jail sentences handed down.

Becoming an RECI involves registering with SafeElectric (I believe this is a government body) and everyone is playing on a level playing field (for the most part). Registration costs €75 per annum.

Certification is also mandatory and likely to become more and more of an issue with sale of properties. Onus is on the RECI to provide certification, unlike the daft Part P situation in which it is the homeowner's responsibility to comply with regulations of which most likely have no knowledge.

I'm not in favour of regulation for regulation's sake, but it seems like a fair system for those who want to do things right and threatens (not lightly, either) severe enough penalties to dissuade a good number of those who don't think laws apply to them.

I reckon the UK could learn a lot from the scheme, but also reckon they'll never implement something so simple and fair when so much influence is wielded by scams who stand to profit considerably from the labour of others, through the provision of schemes which truthfully aren't worth a damn.

 

[Risteard]

Part P only applies to part of the UK - granted that part covers the vast majority of the UK's population, but this variation highlights a certain issue.

I look south to ROI where it is illegal for anyone other than a registered electrical contractor to carry out electrical work. They aren't ----ing about with punishments either - fines up to €15,000 and up to 3 years in prison, with prosecutions taking place and jail sentences handed down.

Becoming an RECI involves registering with SafeElectric (I believe this is a government body) and everyone is playing on a level playing field (for the most part). Registration costs €75 per annum.

Certification is also mandatory and likely to become more and more of an issue with sale of properties. Onus is on the RECI to provide certification, unlike the daft Part P situation in which it is the homeowner's responsibility to comply with regulations of which most likely have no knowledge.

I'm not in favour of regulation for regulation's sake, but it seems like a fair system for those who want to do things right and threatens (not lightly, either) severe enough penalties to dissuade a good number of those who don't think laws apply to them.

I reckon the UK could learn a lot from the scheme, but also reckon they'll never implement something so simple and fair when so much influence is wielded by scams who stand to profit considerably from the labour of others, through the provision of schemes which truthfully aren't worth a damn.

Registration doesn't cost €75 - it's actually several hundred Euro. (€487.67 or some weird amount this year - it's risen quite substantially recently. Was something like €350 before that.)