Carrying out an Industrial PIR

[roukel01]

Been asked to carry out a routine PIR on an industrial unit we maintain. Insurance company is asking it has to be an NICEIC certificate. We're not registered with them, only part of ELECSA for part p stuff. Obviously we have 2391. Is there anything we can say to make them understand we're ok to carry out the PIR??

Thanks all.

 

[Notsosmart]

As it's an insurance company they may well be mis-understanding what a PIR is. It certainly isn't a certificate it is a report, whoever contacted you has probably only heard of the NICEIC, and may well have contacted the NIC on the type of requirements so naturally the NIC will lay it on thick (we all know what they are like!)

 

[Johno]

i had exactly the same thing a few months ago, but i think the letter off the ins company was urging for an NICEIC firm to do it, but not insisting on it. so i just did it and have not heard anything, so all must be good.

 

[Des 56]

Whenever I have one of those "we require an Nic" stipulation,I dont go to the trouble of trying to educate them,wheteher they are ignorant mixed up unsure or whatever else

I do the Pi,r present them with the report and attach a letter stating this report carried out by so and so,qualification for carrying out the report City + guilds 2391 inspection and testing of electrical installations.then I would have ammuntion to enquire "why not" if they quaetioned anything

As of yet i have never had a problem and if I did I, would have a list as long as your arm why my report carries more qualification than an nic report that could be carried out by any unqualified Tom or Dick or Harry

In the end though,if they dont see sense,they are the customer and insist on whoever they want for the report, for me,I would just ignore the stipulation

 

[roukel01]

It is the insurance company that insists the report must be carried out by someone registered with NIC, ECA etc and they won't except any other unless it has the NIC/ECA logo on it. We even faxed a copy of our 2391 certificate, which didn't help. Any other ideas????

 

[UNG]

Had similar problems with insurance companies when I was installing intruder alarms a number of years ago they always insisted on NSCIA/NACOSS. I was SSAIB approved and I had a number or conversations with the companies concerned and usually ended up having a meeting at the site to iron out the problems for us to retain the contract, only lost one customer who took the least line of resistance and then rang us to tell us the company he was now using didn't provide as good a service as us and charged alot more

Years later one of my engineers went to work for a NACOSS approved company during the annual inspection he was told by the inspector that he didn't need to connect all the tamper switches his reply was he wasn't going to lower his standards to pass the NACOSS inspection and sent the inspector on his way

The thing is insurance companies live in a blinkered world and it takes time to educate them. This can only happen if your approval body get out and promotes itself to the insurers. Like NACOSS the NICEIC has been the dominant industry body for years and the new kids on the block are struggling to break it's dominance

If you can put forward a good case the insurance company will usually back down

 

[Des 56]

There is always a threat to report them to trading standards for unfair practices,but they may insist that their request is reasonable because of insurance guarantees or whatever

If you were registered with Napit you would be able to use them to argue the case, usually they are successfull
If you are with Elecsa then they may not be able to help unless you are pir registered with them as well

If you are not registered, but are qualified,hold public indemnity insurance, then I would go the trading standards route or enlist the assistance of my local MP
Telling him how this company are discriminating against the local workforce in favour of unskilled enterprises


Who are these insurance people ? for what its worth the creeps would have a letter off myself explaining the error of their ways

 

[roukel01]

There is always a threat to report them to trading standards for unfair practices,but they may insist that their request is reasonable because of insurance guarantees or whatever

If you were registered with Napit you would be able to use them to argue the case, usually they are successfull
If you are with Elecsa then they may not be able to help unless you are pir registered with them as well

If you are not registered, but are qualified,hold public indemnity insurance, then I would go the trading standards route or enlist the assistance of my local MP
Telling him how this company are discriminating against the local workforce in favour of unskilled enterprises


Who are these insurance people ? for what its worth the creeps would have a letter off myself explaining the error of their ways

Cheers for that Des, up to now, its our customer that has spoken to their insurers. Perhaps we need to get involved a little more. Unfortunatley we're only registered to self cert with Elecsa, we've never bothered with the PIR part of the scheme.

 

[UNG]

Tried the trading standards thing years ago if you cause an insurer any trouble they have the right to refuse insurance it is alot better to try and reach an agreement directly with them, alot of these companies employ engineers (elec, mech etc) so it may be possible you could talk to one of them to get to a solution that suits everyone

If you need to get anyone involved I would try the ABI (Associaton of British Insurers) as they tend to be the organisation that sets the guidelines for insurers

 

[Notsosmart]

Good call

 

[pennywise]

Have you got any m8's that are fully approved, give it to them and charge an introductory fee, or give them the price you want to charge get them to quote for it with your price then you do the works as a subby and work a small fee in for their troubles.

 

[roukel01]

Have you got any m8's that are fully approved, give it to them and charge an introductory fee, or give them the price you want to charge get them to quote for it with your price then you do the works as a subby and work a small fee in for their troubles.

All the lads I know are registered with Elecsa like me.

 

[pennywise]

Time for one of you to go fully approved me thinks

 

[roukel01]

Time for one of you to go fully approved me thinks

I am fully approved and not limited scope, just can't justify the extra £240 for the PIR's. I've never had a problem in the past with any other insurance companies, these are just being a pain and I needed some helpful advice on how to tackle it.

 

[pennywise]

Not getting at you m8 just it seems easier to go with the NIC or ECA as an approved contractor. Wasn't questioning your scope sorry.