Changing 12V Downlights to GU10 LEDs

[yellowvanman]

Does anybody here have issues with changing 12V lamps to GU10 LED lamps in the same fitting?

Obviously involves taking out the transformer, changing the lamp holder and putting the fitting back.

I only ask because:

a) The tin cans usually have a label that says 12V
b) The tin cans are not earthed - but there are plenty of 230V ones that aren't earthed as well.

Thoughts?

 

[telectrix]

just do it. GU10 lampholders are class2 anyway. park the cpc with a block if there,s no 3rd terminal but make sure the cpc is continuous throughout the circuit.

 

[Richard Burns]

ibid^^^^

 

[HappyHippyDad]

ibid^^^^

I think that means you agree with Tel Richard?

Would you both really be happy using a metal fitting that isn't earthed? I've always taken out the the old 12V fittings and replaced with fittings that state 230V. I've done this for a few reasons:

1. It states 12V on it so that kind of makes me think dont use 230V in it.
2. It's metal, so should be earthed at 230V.
3. There isn't always somewhere on the old 12V fitting that you can attach the GU10 holder bracket to to keep the terminal block away from the fitting.

 

[gnselectricals]

I think that means you agree with Tel Richard?

Would you both really be happy using a metal fitting that isn't earthed? I've always taken out the the old 12V fittings and replaced with fittings that state 230V. I've done this for a few reasons:

1. It states 12V on it so that kind of makes me think dont use 230V in it.
2. It's metal, so should be earthed at 230V.
3. There isn't always somewhere on the old 12V fitting that you can attach the GU10 holder bracket to to keep the terminal block away from the fitting.

No. 2 not correct, no requirement to provide an earth if metal. Class 2 fittings can be constructed of metal and would not need an earth
No. 3 the gu10 lamp holders I buy from Eddys all come with a metal bracket which secures to the light fitting spring

I am doing a job next week which is exactly this scenario, also none of the fittings are fire rated either [emoji50]

 

[polo1]

No. 2 not correct, no requirement to provide an earth if metal. Class 2 fittings can be constructed of metal and would not need an earth
No. 3 the gu10 lamp holders I buy from Eddys all come with a metal bracket which secures to the light fitting spring

I am doing a job next week which is exactly this scenario, also none of the fittings are fire rated either [emoji50]

Yeah, but to be Class 2, it's got to have been assessed as Class 2 and carry the double insulated symbol.....if the OP's lights carry this, he's good to go; if not, he could carry on, but he would be taking a risk that I certainly wouldn't!

 

[HappyHippyDad]

No. 2 not correct, no requirement to provide an earth if metal. Class 2 fittings can be constructed of metal and would not need an earth
No. 3 the gu10 lamp holders I buy from Eddys all come with a metal bracket which secures to the light fitting spring

I am doing a job next week which is exactly this scenario, also none of the fittings are fire rated either [emoji50]

Yes, thats quite right, but they would be classed as class 2 and have the correct double square sign. These will not be classed as class 2. With your above argument we could just say that we never have to earth any metal.


... you beat me to it Polo :smile5:

 

[gnselectricals]

True but gu10 lampholder has reinforced insulation with over sleeving so pretty much ok.

 

[Spoon]

Aren't you altering the design of the lamp if you do what the OP suggests? Therefore you come responsible for the design and then need all the Risk Assessments and other paper work doing for it?
(Not very well put by me, but you get the gist of what I'm trying to say.... Hopefully...)

 

[gnselectricals]

Aren't you altering the design of the lamp if you do what the OP suggests? Therefore you come responsible for the design and then need all the Risk Assessments and other paper work doing for it?
(Not very well put by me, but you get the gist of what I'm trying to say.... Hopefully...)

More than likely and probably need to be CE marked and all the rest of it. Yeah should change the fittings completely but it's minimal risk in my opinion so I'm happy to get paid

 

[Richard Burns]

I have just suggested this option to a customer and did not worry at all.
They are marked 12V because we apparently need warnings not to use 230V on a specific 12V fitting.
I would class the assembly relevant to the lamp as the lamp holder as this is the only part in contact with the power supply.
The can is only in contact with sleeved cables and since the GU10 lampholder itself is classed as Class II putting in a metal box does not change this.

However I do also definitely see where you are coming from in terms of modifying a piece of electrical equipment and possibly increasing risk, but as gnselectricals says the risk is minimal in my view.