Changing light, too many wires!

[Anaism22]

Hello,
We just changed the lighting of our kitchen. It was a ceiling light with two rows of spotlight. The new lighting only has one row. When we removed the old one it looked like there was too many wires - two big cables with 3-4 wires each.
There’s 2x red (L), 1x blue, 1x black, 1x yellow and the earth (yellow/green)

I’m not sure which one to connect together?
I’ve left the black and yellow unplugged as I wasn’t sure. Now the light turns on but we can switch it off.
I’m guessing the circuit is not closed.

I’m attaching a picture for reference.

Thanks
Ana

 

[Dustydazzler]

Be wary..

There is an estate near me where it has been wired and the yellow on all the 3c cable is actually the earth and the cpcs have all been cut out or aren't connected to anything

 

[Julie.]

Thank you so much!

It does look like a metal light fitting, however it was mentioned to connect the Earth wire in the middle section so I’m not sure it’s a class II (as it would mean no earth needed correct?).

May I please ask you to indicate which part needs reconnecting in the photo? Sorry to be a pain.
[automerge]1577009106[/automerge]

Sorry didn’t get a pic! Will try tomorrow.
It’s a two-way switch - on and off. One switch has 2 reds, and the other one has one red and one black if I remember correctly.
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The chocolate block was provided with the light fitting, it was already all connected.

But the centre connection must be connected to the metal of the light fitting itself - then to the cpc (earth) wire of the circuit.

if not and it is class II, then the actual connections must be made outside of the lamp fitting in an insulated box, if the connections are in the fitting, then it can't be class II

About the most important connection that should be made is the earth!

 

[Anaism22]

Show a pic of the switch wiring.

Sorry for the delay

 

[littlespark]

The switch is a 2 gang... not a 2 way.
2 way means 2 switches operating the same light.

it really would take an electrician 10 minutes to sort this for you, but may charge by the hour.

 

[Anaism22]

The switch is a 2 gang... not a 2 way.
2 way means 2 switches operating the same light.

it really would take an electrician 10 minutes to sort this for you, but may charge by the hour.

View attachment 54936

oh that makes sense!
Yes I know, it’s £90/hour minimum... for a 10 minutes job it’s so frustrating!

 

[freddo]

Wish I got £90 an hour!

 

[phil 01]

Why did you connect the black cable from the fitting to the red? Did it say on the fitting these should be connect to the live? I would have imagined the whites should’ve be the live, so if the whites are the live connection, connect these to the one Black, connect the the blacks of the fitting to the blue, leave the reds connected together in there own connector, power back on try the switch if nothing power off connect the yellow to the reds, power on try switch if this now works power off connect the earths screw the fitting back up celebrate new year

 

[freddo]

With standard black and white colouring, black will be live and white neutral.

 

[davesparks]

Why did you connect the black cable from the fitting to the red?

power on try switch if this now works power off connect the earths screw the fitting back up celebrate new year

Because normally black is live and white is neutral in a black and white colour scheme.

The earths should be connected before anything is made live, especially if mucking around with connections, not after making it live.

 

[richy3333]

Yes I know, it’s £90/hour minimum... for a 10 minutes job it’s so frustrating!

£90 is no cost at all if it saves your life!

 

[davesparks]

oh that makes sense!
Yes I know, it’s £90/hour minimum... for a 10 minutes job it’s so frustrating!

You can find a good electrician for less than that,

 

[Julie.]

Because normally black is live and white is neutral in a black and white colour scheme.

The earths should be connected before anything is made live, especially if mucking around with connections, not after making it live.

This is one of the issues with lots of kit sold on ebay, Amazon, and even many of the hardware superstores, it actually isn't to UK or even international standards, often it's the wrong colour scheme, ES lampholders that aren't to standard, and inappropriate earthing arrangements.


What's worse, is that from the colours used, a typical diyer is likely to think black is neutral and goes to the black neutral in their old fixed wiring, and with old style es holders, which tend to be used on these (non 60238 - which only covers two types anyway) this puts the live on the exposed part of the screw fitting !!


After all white is actually only permissable as a live conductor, black of course would be ok as live.

Similarly the fittings absolutely need an earth, yet instead of a short green/yellow wire which indicates to everyone that an earth is needed, it ends up being a nondescript tag which most will miss!

I do think diyers should be allowed to do their own work - in fact much more than part P suggests without notice, but what should be stopped is the selling of kit that isn't to UK standards - if sold at all this should be to professionals only as they can interpret the bad colours, wrong lamp fittings, and poorly designed earthing arrangements to ensure that they are fitted safely ..

 

[Anaism22]

Thanks so much!
y

Why did you connect the black cable from the fitting to the red? Did it say on the fitting these should be connect to the live? I would have imagined the whites should’ve be the live, so if the whites are the live connection, connect these to the one Black, connect the the blacks of the fitting to the blue, leave the reds connected together in there own connector, power back on try the switch if nothing power off connect the yellow to the reds, power on try switch if this now works power off connect the earths screw the fitting back up celebrate new year

Thanks so much! Yes it was indicated this way on the fitting- whites are neutral and black were the blacks.

 

[SparkyHarry]

Thanks so much!
y

Thanks so much! Yes it was indicated this way on the fitting- whites are neutral and black were the blacks.

You could start a new post asking for a quote from Surrey Electricians. Someone on here will offer you a cheaper price than £90!

 

[PeakSteve]

Hello,
We just changed the lighting of our kitchen. It was a ceiling light with two rows of spotlight. The new lighting only has one row. When we removed the old one it looked like there was too many wires - two big cables with 3-4 wires each.
There’s 2x red (L), 1x blue, 1x black, 1x yellow and the earth (yellow/green)

I’m not sure which one to connect together?
I’ve left the black and yellow unplugged as I wasn’t sure. Now the light turns on but we can switch it off.
I’m guessing the circuit is not closed.

I’m attaching a picture for reference.

Thanks
Ana

Usually, red & Black cable = Live & Neutral. Red, Yellow & Blue = possibly originally 2 different switch circuits. Try connecting red to red, black to lights Neutral, and Yellow to lights Live (and safely isolate the blue - i.e don't use). If that doesn't work swap the blue and yellow.
You would be better, though, to get an electrician to do it.
[automerge]1578604046[/automerge]

Usually, red & Black cable = Live & Neutral. Red, Yellow & Blue = possibly originally 2 different switch circuits. Try connecting red to red, black to lights Neutral, and Yellow to lights Live (and safely isolate the blue - i.e don't use). If that doesn't work swap the blue and yellow.
You would be better, though, to get an electrician to do it.

PS. BOTH EARTH WIRES MUST BE CONNECTED TOGETHER, AND TO ANY EARTH CONNECTION ON THE LIGHT.