charging for 5 mins return visit

[dean.diy]

Afternoon to the Forum. Appreciate other views. PIR security lights seem to
need 5 mins adjustment after the first night.How do other members think,
half hour for parts, hour to fit, then allocate another hour to drive over
after the customer's phonecall about didn't go off/ reflection from next
door's pond/ boiler flue etc. Thanks, Dean.

 

[Paul.M]

The set up of the sensor should be within the price you quote for intallation, even if that means doing it at the light level the customer wants it to go off at. End of the day the customer is paying for goods and services provided by you which imho equates to the sercurity light being fully functional to the customers requirements.

Little trick that an old sparky showed me. If you've got a pir sercurity light job booked in, on the night before take it out of the box and put a plug top flex to it in your back garden and set it up for the level of light you think is corret. Also set the timer to about one minuet. This can save you a load of time going up and down a ladder for what is a small proffit job. hope that helps.

 

[HandySparks]

Yes, outdoor PIR lights are a pain. You pretty much have to build the extra costs into the price. There's the call backs to sort out triggering issues and quite a significant chance that it'll fail within the first year and require replacement. If I'm supplying it, I'll often charge double the cost of the light as "materials".

 

[Spazz]

When I work on PIRs I always charge a price which includes going back at a specified time where the customer wants the light to start working and stop working. Normally done on the way or way back from a job mind.

Only takes 5 minuets to adjust a PIR. The timer is always set up as soon as the installation is completed, usually put some tape over the light sensor or a black bag.

 

[dean.diy]

A slight change of attitude on my part needed. Thanks Paul and HandySparks
for your replies. Good tip with the plug. Thanks, Dean.

 

[Paul.M]

I had this same problem last week and it got me thinking. If we can manufactor and supply a sola powered calculator for £1.99 in the shops, why cant they make a digital pir to replace what we have now?


Fare enough we may have to buy an extra peice of kit so we can plug into the light and set it up for lets say 60s and a lumin level of --- but whoever puts a product on the shelves like that, I would buy it.


And lets face it, its that time of year when people start thinking about o/s lights.

 

[dean.diy]

Nicholas, thanks for taking the trouble. Dean.

 

[KevinS]

One other way to do it is
specify at the time of giving the quote that you will install the light and do approximate setting up but the final adjustment is down to the customer, stipulate that this is the cheapest option, they normally go for it and it saves you going back and forth.

problem solved!

 

[Amp David]

This is why every quote I have given for external PIR lights I have never won.

My price always includes the costs for going back to adjust etc, but i'm always too expensive.

Now I know why other charge less. :tt1:

 

[dean.diy]

hello David, your and the other members' approach is the right one, not just for
PIRs but anything else that probably needs another visit for adjustment.With
more margin I don't mind going back.Thanks, Dean.

 

[Darkwood]

I usually show the customer the set-up dials on the base (when in reach) and give them a free 50p driver to adjust, i explain i can roughly set it up but may need a tweak regarding the time and dusk level.... i sometimes get a phonecall and i take them through it over the phone..... i tend to fit low level seperate PIR's to allow this but if job is local ill pay a curtesy visit.
Its this extra service that gets you a good name the minute you charge for a second set up you will start a slippery slope of customers bad mouthing your service.
I have never advertised and im on my 3rd year and as busy as ever and to be honest yes you may need to throw an extra few hours here an there but the good name and recommendations is worth alot more than the lost earnings.

 

[Octopus]

If you think you can charge a client extra, after you've done the job, to go back and do a minor adjustment you need to rethink your strategy. Alternatively don't quote for such business.

 

[Darkwood]

I just done a high end kitchen install about 2k work still to finish, fitted LED recess fittings throughout kitchen and dining and last saturday i got a call saying they have lost all lighting on that floor so did the usual over the phone queries but couldn't fathom the fault so took a 2hrs roundtrip to discover one of the fittings had blown but also mcb had blown too and although had been reset wasn't energising circuit. It was a existing circuit and mcb to the house but i took it on the chin and said as a goodwill il wavour any callout charge but will just add the small cost to the bill of the replacement mcb, ive already had interest from a neighbour of theirs for some work.
You kinda get a 6sense of when its acceptable to start piling in the extra's and when to just accept its part of the nature of the job.

 

[Taylortwocities]

One other way to do it is
specify at the time of giving the quote that you will install the light and do approximate setting up but the final adjustment is down to the customer, stipulate that this is the cheapest option, they normally go for it and it saves you going back and forth.

problem solved!

I absolutely agree.
You are providing and installing an appliance. You do the necessary, test it works and give the customer the USER INSTRUCTIONS that detail the adjustments that the user can make to customise the PIR to do what he wants.
Job done.


You try calling SKY to come and customise the SKY+ box for you after they have installed it........
Whoops there goes another £100.

 

[Darkwood]

Your a business man not a taxman, scrimping pennies for making adjustments to a PIR you set up does not make good business sense as i already said and you Sky man anology is a poor example ... if the sky dish is set up and you find you signal is bad they will return and correct for free they have a duty of care that the set-up is correct, customising the sky box to personel taste is not comparable example having said that most sky engineers will do a basic set up as part of the install if you ask and any issues you can call them and they will take you through it step by step over the phone if you are a technophobe, alot of people out there have trouble following what would be to us basic instructions and having the attitude that they have user instructions and wash your hands of it will only alienate a good proportion of the market and do you no favours for your business.

 

[sparkymarky]

tell em to stickit 'where their pir dont shine' ....lol

 

[Paul.M]

tell em to stickit 'where their pir dont shine' ....lol

And where would that be then? Your pride in your work???

 

[Taylortwocities]

Your a business man not a taxman, scrimping pennies for making adjustments to a PIR you set up does not make good business sense as i already said and you Sky man anology is a poor example ... if the sky dish is set up and you find you signal is bad they will return and correct for free they have a duty of care that the set-up is correct, customising the sky box to personel taste is not comparable example having said that most sky engineers will do a basic set up as part of the install if you ask and any issues you can call them and they will take you through it step by step over the phone if you are a technophobe, alot of people out there have trouble following what would be to us basic instructions and having the attitude that they have user instructions and wash your hands of it will only alienate a good proportion of the market and do you no favours for your business.

Yeah right. So what do i do when the PIR keeps going off because their bloomin bamboo starts waving in the wind.
Stay there all night holding it down?

I don't think so. Small jobs like this are tough enough to make any money at.
£40 to supply and fit (less tax on the profit), then I have to cut an invoice, do a Minor Works Cert and trek down to the bank to pay in the cheque.
Then go back to make adjustments to controls that are there for the user? I don't think so.

 

[Darkwood]

Yeah right. So what do i do when the PIR keeps going off because their bloomin bamboo starts waving in the wind.
Stay there all night holding it down?

I don't think so. Small jobs like this are tough enough to make any money at.
£40 to supply and fit (less tax on the profit), then I have to cut an invoice, do a Minor Works Cert and trek down to the bank to pay in the cheque.
Then go back to make adjustments to controls that are there for the user? I don't think so.

If that was the case i would suggest poor install and design, if the PIR is likely to be repeatedly false triggered from heating flue's, passing traffic etc then i would have the forsight to advice the customer against a PIR in the requested area....i personally dont fit PIR lighting unless its part of a larger job i learnt many years ago the failure rate of them regardless of brand makes them not worth the hassle as a small job but understand when needs must but wouldn't be an excuse for a poorly sighted PIR.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

PIR's are the biggest time wasters ever.....I've had customers insist their light must stay on for a set amount of time...and then time it with a watch....and then get you up and down like a tarts knickers trying to get it exactly right:dizzy2:......Also had one lady who moaned cos it picked up hubbies car but not hers.....:banghead:

 

[Des 56]

PIR's are the biggest time wasters ever.....I've had customers insist their light must stay on for a set amount of time...and then time it with a watch....and then get you up and down like a tarts knickers trying to get it exactly right:dizzy2:......Also had one lady who moaned cos it picked up hubbies car but not hers.....:banghead:

Wirepuller,an experienced spark such as yourself, forgetting the Gender sensor.Tut Tut :74:

 

[Darkwood]

Totally agree as i said il only do it if part of a larger job but i always prep the customers that the range of them follows a seasonal pattern re' to air temp and objects are picked up due to heat signature so a car thats been sat cold and just started can sometimes fail to trigger where as a car thats been on the road a while will trail a heat signature. This alone can stop half the weird phone calls but i always explain the time adjustment is not linear so it can only be estimated if it isnt time marked in seconds and minutes.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Sure, for a big job you can build in some bunce, but Dean's query was specifically about a one off job.

How do other members think,
half hour for parts, hour to fit, then allocate another hour to drive over
after the customer's phonecall about didn't go off/ reflection from next
door's pond/ boiler flue etc. .