Church wiring advice

[sythai]

Hi Guys

Been to look job in a church grade which is also grade 1 listed, installing infra red heating.

Can't see anything in particular in regs specifying what type of wiring system should be used for a church ?

On looking round could see a right old mix of PVC conduit, metal conduit, surface TE and pyro.
Haven't done pyro for about 20 years , so this is out of question for me!
My preferred method would be PVC conduit/ singles.

I've got send the quote with proposed cable routes/ marked up photos and full spec of materials to be approved by the diocese.

Any advice welcome please.....

Thanks Sy

 

[James]

I would quote for pvc conduit and give them the option of upgrading to light duty galv conduit if they prefer the look of it.

Also be sure to point out that wherever possible screws in walls will be made off in the mortar instead of the brick / stone work.

they will probably be keen for you to avoid drilling holes in any of the original woodwork / joists so make sure you consider that when doing the cable routing.

Some might say that there is little point in worrying to much about the wiring reg's on this job as after all, it is the house of god and should be under his protection.

 

[PS Electrics]

Hi Guys

Been to look job in a church grade which is also grade 1 listed, installing infra red heating.

Can't see anything in particular in regs specifying what type of wiring system should be used for a church ?

On looking round could see a right old mix of PVC conduit, metal conduit, surface TE and pyro.
Haven't done pyro for about 20 years , so this is out of question for me!
My preferred method would be PVC conduit/ singles.

I've got send the quote with proposed cable routes/ marked up photos and full spec of materials to be approved by the diocese.

Any advice welcome please.....

Thanks Sy

Only thing I would say is with that type of building it not going to be straight surfaces etc which is why Pyro is often chosen you can tuck that away and have some flexibility here and there so to speak.

I know what you mean about Pyro it was never my strong point either, I could never get it dressed to the level I was ever happy with.

 

[sythai]

I would quote for pvc conduit and give them the option of upgrading to light duty galv conduit if they prefer the look of it.

Also be sure to point out that wherever possible screws in walls will be made off in the mortar instead of the brick / stone work.

they will probably be keen for you to avoid drilling holes in any of the original woodwork / joists so make sure you consider that when doing the cable routing.

Some might say that there is little point in worrying to much about the wiring reg's on this job as after all, it is the house of god and should be under his protection.

thanks James

 

[sythai]

Some might say that there is little point in worrying to much about the wiring reg's on this job as after all, it is the house of god and should be under his protection.

 

[James]

Its worth noting that someone seems to be doing a pretty good job of looking after churches.
these are the last ones to catch fire!!

• St Mary's Church, Barnes – The church was badly damaged by fire in June 1978.[79]
• Canterbury Cathedral – The cathedral was destroyed by fire in 1067. Another fire in 1174 damaged the choir, leading to the rebuilding of the east end of the cathedral. An earthquake damaged the cathedral in 1382. An 1872 fire destroyed the roof of the Trinity Chapel.[80] Fires sustained during World War II bombings were quickly extinguished.[81]
• Chichester Cathedral – An 1187 fire destroyed the cathedral and town.[82]
• Coventry Cathedral – The Gothic St Michael's Church was destroyed in the Coventry Blitz on 14 November 1940. A new church was built next to the ruins, which have been stabilized and preserved.[83]

The fire-damaged ruins of Croydon parish church in 1867

• St John the Baptist's Church, Croydon – The medieval predecessor of the present church building was destroyed by fire during the night of 5 January 1867.[84]
• St Mary's Church, Ewell – The entire north aisle of the church, except for a print by William Holman Hunt, was destroyed in a fire in 1973.[85]
• Hereford Cathedral – Welsh forces burned the predecessor of the present cathedral in 1056.[86]

St Paul's during the Great Fire of London

• St Paul's Cathedral, London – The predecessor to the present St Paul's Cathedral was destroyed in the 1666 Great Fire of London. Built starting in 1087 after a city fire the same year, it was damaged while under construction by another London fire in 1135. A 1561 fire in the church's 460-foot (140 m) spire was ignited by a lightning strike, destroying the spire and much of the roof, melting the lead The final 1666 fire was abetted by scaffolding around the building, whose heat calcined the stone.[38] Demolition of the ruins was complicated by solidified lead that bound the ruins together.[87][88][89]
• List of churches destroyed in the Great Fire of London and not rebuilt – Many London churches were destroyed in the Great Fire of 1666.
• St Botolph's Aldgate, London – Damaged by fire in 1965.[90]
• St Clement Danes, London – On 10 May 1941, during the London Blitz, a bombing raid set fire to the church.[91]
• St Mary-at-Hill, London – The predecessor was rebuilt after the Great Fire of 1666. On 10 May 1987, a fire destroyed much of the church's interior, including its box pews.[92]
• St Peter's Church, Eaton Square, London – The original church was destroyed by fire in 1837, only a decade after its completion. Its successor was very badly damaged by arson in October 1987.[93]
• Newcastle Cathedral – A Norman predecessor burned in 1216.[94]
• Norwich Cathedral – In 1171 a fire damaged the nave. A lightning strike in 1463 ignited the spire and destroyed the nave roof. The heat of the fire changed the limestone of the nave from cream colored to pink in places. In 1509 the transept roofs burned.[95]
• Peterborough Cathedral – A 22 November 2001, arson caused substantial damage to the cathedral where the wooden ceiling came within moments of catching fire.[96] Fortunately the fire was spotted by one of the vergers allowing a swift response by emergency services.[97] The timing was particularly unfortunate, for a complete restoration of the painted wooden ceiling was nearing completion.[98]
• St Mary's Church, Putney – The church was badly damaged by fire as the result of an arson attack in 1973. The interior was completely rebuilt and the church re-consecrated in 1982.[99]
• Sheffield Cathedral – The parish church predecessor was burned in 1266.[100] The present cathedral has suffered from fires in the 20th and 21st centuries.[101]
• Southwark Cathedral – The cathedral's predecessor was destroyed in 1212 by the Great Fire of Southwark.[102]
• Southwell Cathedral – Lightning striking the southwest tower burned the tower roof, nave and crossing on 5 November 1711.[103]
• St Leonard's Church, Streatham – The church, rebuilt in 1830, was badly damaged by fire in May 1975.[104]

York Minster showing the fire damage to the roof of the south transept

• York Minster – An earlier church was destroyed by fire in 741. Its successor was damaged in 1069 during the harrying of the North, and finally destroyed by the Danes in 1070. A new Norman style structure was built from 1080 and was damaged by fire in 1137. It was replaced in stages by the present structure. An 1840 fire destroyed the roof over the nave, southwest tower and south aisle. On 9 July 1984 a major fire destroyed the roof and vaulted ceiling of the 13th-century south transept.[105]

 

[littlespark]

when buildings are that old, the timbers are going to be dry... and even with grace of God, accidents will happen.

Possibly the electrics are as old as electricity itself.... and never upgraded... Best place to find old wooden fuseboards... or those high spires are ust too good at conducting lightning.

My mums old church had an old baptism pool water heater... which was basically a long immersion heater on a 15A plug.


Although pyro could be a good shout, its not even specced nowadays in favour of less expensive FP200 or whatever for fire protection.


Most of the churches ive worked in recently have had either just T&E or mini trunking... but steel conduit been used in the past.

 

[James]

when buildings are that old, the timbers are going to be dry... and even with grace of God, accidents will happen.

Possibly the electrics are as old as electricity itself.... and never upgraded... Best place to find old wooden fuseboards... or those high spires are ust too good at conducting lightning.

My mums old church had an old baptism pool water heater... which was basically a long immersion heater on a 15A plug.


Although pyro could be a good shout, its not even specced nowadays in favour of less expensive FP200 or whatever for fire protection.


Most of the churches ive worked in recently have had either just T&E or mini trunking... but steel conduit been used in the past.

surface mount FP200 might be a good shout, it is an option that you could put to them.
although, i think its only available in red or white, might not blend in as well as galv conduit.

 

[sythai]

surface mount FP200 might be a good shout, it is an option that you could put to them.
although, i think its only available in red or white, might not blend in as well as galv conduit.

Sounds like a good option with the FP200... I've had a look and is available in black which would work.
Also going to suggest putting this circuit on and AFDD (not fitted one yet.)

 

[sythai]

Comes in black

 

[lozarus]

Recent church I stopped by (still boasting it's wooden Wylex rewriteable board) had had some recent work done. Type A RCD fitted adjacent the wooden board in an eclosure and black FP200 used with linian clips to add new sockets. Pukka job I thought.

 

[MDJ]

I would quote for pvc conduit and give them the option of upgrading to light duty galv conduit if they prefer the look of it.

Also be sure to point out that wherever possible screws in walls will be made off in the mortar instead of the brick / stone work.

they will probably be keen for you to avoid drilling holes in any of the original woodwork / joists so make sure you consider that when doing the cable routing.

Some might say that there is little point in worrying to much about the wiring reg's on this job as after all, it is the house of god and should be under his protection.

pvc conduit< come on James, how is that going to look in a church, I would suggest anything but

 

[Rockingit]

I would have expected that for a G1 building English Heritage will ultimately specify the materials and method - expect Pyro/MICC to be high on the list whether you like it or not.

 

[sythai]

I would have expected that for a G1 building English Heritage will ultimately specify the materials and method - expect Pyro/MICC to be high on the list whether you like it or not.

Just double checked.... is G2, so hopefully not as strict !

 

[Yellowhammer]

About 10 years ago I spent a while working on a rewire of Tewkesbury Abbey, all mandated as MICC and anything on show we had to spray with a matching stone textured spray paint.

Really interesting job, and I actually appreciate the experience, as increasingly it seems no one ever experiences working with mineral!