Clipped Direct

[RWJ]

We've been called to a job where the local authority enviro. health had paid a visit and condemned the wiring.

The site is a petting farm which has several large wooden sheds housing various animals, the wiring is 2.5 T&E about 5 years old run from a swa fed RCD supply.

The T&W is clipped direct to the shed, it's fairly neat at on a visual I'm ok with it.

However the guy from enviro. Health came with his "voltage tester" and condemned it because his voltage tester light up when he touched the cables.... Hardly surprising as that what it's designed to do!!!

As far a I know..... Please tell me if I'm wrong... (don't forget I normally work with SWA and SY)
CLIPPED DIRECT is still a recognised method in wiring installation.

Can anyone think of a reason why this might not be acceptable... The public at a push could touch the cable but not any connections, junctions boxes etc.

Looking for you support or comments.

 

[Amp David]

The main risk i suppose is the with it only being twin and earth, it doesn't have great protection against becoming damaged.

 

[RWJ]

The main risk i suppose is the with it only being twin and earth, it doesn't have great protection against becoming damaged.

I did think about just putting the cables in trunking... but still abit miffed buy a environmental health officer with a red voltage tester condemning it because it doesn't "meet the regs"

 

[gutterball]

Can the animals get at it? If it's away from the areas where they are I would say it's ok.

 

[Electricalserv]

Both replys are spot on. Protection against livestock and damage to cable. Why not use conduit

 

[topquark]

I guess it depends who/what he thinks is at risk. If it's the animals as they can get to the wiring then fair comment that it needs protection. Otherwise IMHO no problem as it's surface mounted and RCD protected it's technically fine according to the regs I've seen (unless I've missed something).

 

[RWJ]

No where near the animals they're in tanks on the opposite side

 

[RWJ]

I guess it depends who/what he thinks is at risk. If it's the animals as they can get to the wiring then fair comment that it needs protection. Otherwise IMHO no problem as it's surface mounted and RCD protected it's technically fine according to the regs I've seen (unless I've missed something).

He seemed to think the risk was his voltage tester was "lighting up" when he touched the cables!!!!!

 

[Electricalserv]

Personally I think iot needs additional protection because of the environment. Is it outdoors where corrosion and other environmental effects could set in....

 

[topquark]

He seemed to think the risk was his voltage tester was "lighting up" when he touched the cables!!!!!

That's no reason to condem it. I don't think anyone would claim it's a good installation (certainly not from a mechanical protection perspective). But technically nothing wrong with it.

Perhaps he thinks that the "voltage is leaking" PMSL, I bet if you ask him he thinks voltage flows down cables as well!!

 

[RWJ]

Personally I think iot needs additional protection because of the environment. Is it outdoors where corrosion and other environmental effects could set in....

It's in an insulated large shed , so no different from a garden shed. All the outdoor stuff is SWA

I'll probably try and put the cables in trunking or conduit, they run on a very tight budget so I'm not wanting to take advantage

 

[telectrix]

That's no reason to condem it. I don't think anyone would claim it's a good installation (certainly not from a mechanical protection perspective). But technically nothing wrong with it.

Perhaps he thinks that the "voltage is leaking" PMSL, I bet if you ask him he thinks voltage flows down cables as well!!

what a plonker. the cable only needs protection if it is susceptible to mechanical damage. should confiscate his tester and give him a neon driver

 

[Paul.M]

705.522 In locations accessible to, and enclosing, livestock, wiring systems shall be erected so that they are inaccessible to livestock or suitably protected against mechanical damage.

If the animals within the compound can not get to the t+e there is no need to put it in trunking. Tell that plonker to put his volt stick on every switch in the building so he can condemn that aswell .

 

[RWJ]

705.522 In locations accessible to, and enclosing, livestock, wiring systems shall be erected so that they are inaccessible to livestock or suitably protected against mechanical damage.

If the animals within the compound can not get to the t+e there is no need to put it in trunking. Tell that plonker to put his volt stick on every switch in the building so he can condemn that aswell .

lololol Well to be honest the "jobs worth" is going round everywhere and we're following giving advice and doing PIR's.
So he's keeping us busy!!!

 

[Paul.M]

If this chap is saying its against the regs ask him which ones and we will look it up for you mate, put him to the test. Ask him if he has seen the diagrams for :- location of all electrical equipment, routing of all concealed cables, single line distribution diagram and the bonding diagram. All of these need to be provided for an agriculture and horticulture premises before any inspection can take place.

 

[Electricalserv]

Its all right saying the blokes wrong but we need to see the install etc. RWJ any pic?

 

[DaveyD]

He seemed to think the risk was his voltage tester was "lighting up" when he touched the cables!!!!!

Get a cheap Kewtec one like mine, rub it on him to create a static charge then condem him!

 

[RWJ]

Its all right saying the blokes wrong but we need to see the install etc. RWJ any pic?

I'll get some, our alarm guys are currently on site... Give me half an hour

 

[IQ Electrical]

Most voltage detectors will light up on a PVC conduit installation, if he's using this as a basis for his recommendations, rather than looking for signs of damage after 5 years of use then he's an idiot.

If it wasn't for the UV damage to T&E, you'd probably get 20 years out of it even if used externally, if it's inaccessible to livestock then where's the problem?

 

[telectrix]

think it's a case of giving a monkey a pen but not teaching him how to write. i'd get his volt sick, remove the battery and tape a dip in nib on the end. then sellotape it to his clipboard, then shove the lot up his ----.

 

[RWJ]

View attachment 5457

Not the best photo tbh.... It was taken by an alarm engineer, who was guided by the owner...

This is the piece of cable in dispute. It does look older than 5 years, the outside of the shed looks newer

 

[malcolmsanford]

Well it does look like it need a few more clips ...................

Problem is you will never win really as he the enviro officer is not going to want to loose face and if you cause to much of a stir they will just get a more coperative contractor.

Ask him though what he advises you should do, cover the existing cable with conduit/trunking or rewire?

 

[Adam W]

If it's right in the top corner of the shed I can't see that it's going to be troubled too much by the animals.
I'm a bit concerned about this jobsworth going around condemning every installation that lights up his "tester" though. Have you tried explaining to him what a non-contact voltage detector actually does?

 

[DaveyD]

think it's a case of giving a monkey a pen but not teaching him how to write. i'd get his volt sick, remove the battery and tape a dip in nib on the end. then sellotape it to his clipboard, then shove the lot up his ----.

WOW! It's tough up north ....

 

[RWJ]

If it's right in the top corner of the shed I can't see that it's going to be troubled too much by the animals.
I'm a bit concerned about this jobsworth going around condemning every installation that lights up his "tester" though. Have you tried explaining to him what a non-contact voltage detector actually does?

I've not ever spoken to him, just get phone calls from business in the town say he's been and can we come and sort the electrics

 

[Adam W]

Are you sure he works for the environmental health and he doesn't actually work for you?
Sounds like something off 'the real hustle'.

 

[IQ Electrical]

Are you sure he works for the environmental health and he doesn't actually work for you?
Sounds like something off 'the real hustle'.

Excellent idea, quick ID badge from 'the internet' and off you go!

I'm designing the badge as we speak....

 

[RWJ]

Are you sure he works for the environmental health and he doesn't actually work for you?
Sounds like something off 'the real hustle'.

lololololo shhhhhhhhh

He might to be honest, I'd put nothing past our security director to get a sale (He used to be a salesman for the alarm company with the yellow hexagon bell box)

 

[SPARTYKUS]

If it's right in the top corner of the shed I can't see that it's going to be troubled too much by the animals.
I'm a bit concerned about this jobsworth going around condemning every installation that lights up his "tester" though. Have you tried explaining to him what a non-contact voltage detector actually does?

Provide confusion! (most of the time)

 

[Adam W]

Provide confusion! (most of the time)

That certainly seems to be what it's doing here.

I never thought I'd hear myself say it but he might be better off with a neon screwdriver!

 

[IQ Electrical]

That certainly seems to be what it's doing here.

I never thought I'd hear myself say it but he might be better off with a neon screwdriver!

With a linked-out current limiting resistor?

 

[Adam W]

With a linked-out current limiting resistor?

If you like. Whatever really. He could use one of these: