Commercial PIR

[gtownspark]

Hi Guys, this is my first post....

I've been asked to carry out a PIR on a 5 story office building. Each floor has its own consumer unit fed from a main distribution panel on the ground floor, however none of the circuits are protected by an RCD. The installation looks around 10 years old and has been installed to a high standard.

Would the installation be deemed to be 'unsatisfactory' and not in compliance with BS 7671 17th edition due to the lack of RCD protection or as the installation was installed during 16th Edition regs would you class it as a code 4 not in compliance with BS7671 but deem the installation to be 'satisfactory'?

I would appreciate your thoughts...

 

[malcolmsanford]

Why code it anything as it's commercial and therefore could be classed as under the supervision of a skilled or instructed person. As long as the installation disconnection times are met then I would not code it.

 

[gtownspark]

Well I'm not sure, there is just an old woman in charge!!

 

[telectrix]

why not suggest fitting RCBOs to socket circuits.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Old or not she may still be instructed,

If you wish you could code it a 4 and then advise your client that the new regualtions require RCD protection on sockets, and cables buried in the wall if any.
A code 4 is a satifactory inspection and so it's not going to cause that much of a problem to either of you.

 

[nickblake]

ITs always a difficult one im doing a large warehouse / whole salers all steel trunking,conduit and SWA no need realy for RCD's how ever i all socket outlets do require RCD protection as there isnt a socket that may not be used for an extension outside , so i would recomend RCD protection :installation would benifit RCD protection to socket outlets etc , ai do agree with malcome and telextrix (you beat me to this time) so put in a code 2 requires improvement as thats what Installing RCD would do

 

[IQ Electrical]

Why code it anything as it's commercial and therefore could be classed as under the supervision of a skilled or instructed person. As long as the installation disconnection times are met then I would not code it.

I'm with Malcolm on this, the IEE introduced the 'RCD protection on socket outlets not exceeding 20A' with domestic installations in mind.

The key point is 'where work on the building fabric and electrical installation is controlled by skilled or instructed persons'. Translated, this is referring to DIY Bob popping round to do a bit!

The fact that the place is controlled by 'an old woman' reinforces the argument that bona fide contractors will be used for additions and alterations.

The other problem with imposing RCD protection by the allocation of code 2 defects is the often encountered incompatibility with RCD's and switch mode power supplies in IT equipment....

 

[nickblake]

Yep i agree with that to i can be a complicated issue , i think the hardest part is to assess the factory / offices and basically carry out a risk assesment , before you code it , yes sockets do require RCD protection for the reasons ive said also the can be a pain in the but for the reasons IQ has said so its finding the happy medium ,for instance if there is a ring supplying sockets which may be used by unskilled or competent instructed people IE cleaners using mops and buckets with extension leads etc then i feel that circuit should be RCD protected ,then there is the ring that supplies the office equipment it equipment servers etc that do not require RCD protecting , do you see what im saying ..

 

[IQ Electrical]

Yes, the cleaners sockets and maybe tea bar areas are a fair compromise and yes, it is all a risk assessment, every defect code you apply.

It's impossible to have this definitive PIR code list that many inexperienced inspectors harp on about, you probably wouldn't allocate the same defect code in a nursery as you would in a factory.....

 

[gtownspark]

I think you've confirmed my suspisions, I feel more comfortable with a code 4, at least I've mentioned the RCD situation and if the customer does want to comply with BS7671 they have the option of upgrading with some RCBO's.

Thanks for your help.

 

[con-site guide]

Code 4. No doubt

i think you've confirmed my suspisions, i feel more comfortable with a code 4, at least i've mentioned the rcd situation and if the customer does want to comply with bs7671 they have the option of upgrading with some rcbo's.

Thanks for your help.

 

[the pict]

Forgive if I am wrong but the regulations are not retrospective so if it did not have RCd etc installed at design and verification stage it would not get them at the installation stage what does the previous certs say, how old is the installation, and you really need to be talking to the client or his rep.
Pict

 

[IQ Electrical]

On a PIR, the installation is inspected/tested against the CURRENT EDITION of the regulations, installation date should have no influence on codes applied to defects, have a read of this guide:

http://www.esc.org.uk/pdfs/business-and-community/electrical-industry/BPG4_08.pdf

 

[IQ Electrical]

On a PIR, the installation is inspected/tested against the CURRENT EDITION of the regulations, installation date should have no influence on codes applied to defects, have a read of this guide:

http://www.esc.org.uk/pdfs/business-and-community/electrical-industry/BPG4_08.pdf

 

[the pict]

Yes but code 4 does not imply codes 1 and 2 it would be fundamentally impossible not to mention impractical to suggest to a client that it does