complicated solar switch arrangement

[ajn9000]

There is a limit to what we give away

Whats the heat source for the ufh?
if electric, what's the power rating in each of the rooms ?

appreciate that :santa1:Electric ufh: 3 zones: 1200W / 2250W / 1800W (150W/m2).

 

[sean_ork]

The concept of this idea is good, but I suspect you'll struggle to notice the difference the PV makes.

We done similar, with just a single but larger zone, and found if there's enough sun to drive the UFH the majority of the increase in space heating is via thermal gain through windows.

 

[marc8]

Hello AJN9000

I have done quite a lot of immersun's & i know there is 3 output's on them that can be utilized for different options of heating, when each unit is satisfied the other turns on.

we have a done a few different heating setup's using relay units, I found keeping things simple by running heating circuits through N/o or N/C relay outputs & then through coils can be quite quick & logical to do unless looking to program something more sophisticated?

 

[dansk]

I've ofen thought about this with electric ufh, the problem I see is giving the thermostats a duel supply, i don't see how this would function. putting a direct feed to the heat mats with no thermostatic control would be bad pratice.

 

[Worcester]

This is NOT complicated, unfortunately we still don't have all the information ..
What make and model controllers do you currently have for the ufh?
Is it room by room ? If not why not and how is it configured?
Surely each room already has floor stats?
Does each room also have a room stat ?
What make is the ufh ?

 

[ajn9000]

This is NOT complicated, unfortunately we still don't have all the information ..
What make and model controllers do you currently have for the ufh?
Is it room by room ? If not why not and how is it configured?
Surely each room already has floor stats?
Does each room also have a room stat ?
What make is the ufh ?

System no yet purchased - we still have the floor to sort out (insulation + screed + ufh + tiles)
Will probably go for Warmup StickyMat (150W/m2), or similar.
3 rooms, each with a separate element and controller.
Probably go for Warmup 3IE stats, or similar - room stat in unit + floor stat

 

[Worcester]

Anything you install won't work with the 3IE stats, so you'll need to double up with either the MSTAT or the Heatmiser DS1-E (half the price of the MSTAT).

Simple time based:
You then need a simple logic controller (arduino) and a series of relays
Use the arduino to time control the relays, use the relays to take the switched live from the stats to control a contactor (one for each circuit) (see The JeeLabs Shop - Products )

If you want to get more complicated then you can use the arduino to cascade the heating circuits based on time AND call for heat, i.e if the stat says no call to heat cycle to the next room. You'll need a simple interface to detect the 230V AC live from the stats (you could use a contactor to switch 5V for instance that the arduino can detect)

There are two or three ways you could wire / programme the arduino to do it e.g. use a double pole contactor to switch 5V and 230V for the heating circuit, and power the heating circuit from an ImmerSun so you only power the ufh with 'spare' electricity, you could also ensure that the circuits are only powered when in 'sun' mode either from the main room controller using a switch over contactor so direct / via controlled circuit, so that way some rooms could be always on if you wanted to.

OR you could get really clever and use air and floor stats directly connected to an arduino

SO for the simple solution you need:
Doubled up room controllers with air and floor stats
1 x changover contactor for each room
1 x double pole contactor for each room
1 x arduino controller with 3 relayed outputs (jeenode)
1 x ImmerSun
PLUS your electric ufh.

and / or: check out openenergymonitor.org and use a emonTx or emonTH or a jeenode with two temperature probes (air & floor)
- I use a jeenode and emonGLCD to monitor the top and bottom of the DHW cylinder - in total I've got about 18 different environmental monitors running on the openenergymonitor.org base system. (emonTx. emonTH, emonBase, emonPi and emonCMS)

What would I do?
Put in a wet ufh and an air source heat pump to power it

IF i was stuck with electric UFH, I'd start with an ImmerSUN and I wanted lots of reporting capability I'd probably go the emonTH, emonPI, emonCMS route (Home | OpenEnergyMonitor ), else I'd go the jeenode route (The JeeLabs Shop - JeeNode(v6) and The JeeLabs Shop - Products )


If I wanted a 'mechanical' solution or was supplying it to a customer, then I'd go with my first option above (less diy and 'easiest' to get up and running quickly)

Arduino Controller Components:
1 x JeeNode v6 Kit (no Radio required)
1 x JeeLabs Carrier Board w/ Box
4 x JeeLabs Relay Plug
1 x 5V (or 3.3V) Power Supply
1 x USB BUB III (or equivalent)
+ programming skills

 

[ajn9000]

Great info Worcester, thanks very much
My programming skills are a little rusty - but the main problem I have is [lack of] time :sad:

Interesting you mention the wet ufh + heat pump option. The main constraint we are working to is <= 35mm screed depth (15mm for finished tiles - ie, ffl cannot be greater than 50mm above the top of the PIR insulation layer) and have not yet come to the conclusion that a wet system is possible & worth doing - but your message is prompting me to explore that a bit more

 

[Worcester]

A lot of companies now offer a thin retrofit, Wundafloor do the 'Easy Fit overfloor', Polypipe do the 'overlay', Nu-heat do the 'lopro', give them and speedfit a call, their technical teams will be very willing to help you, and they all offer a free design service

 

[ajn9000]

I'm interested in the air-water heat pump option - I will start a new thread with a query about experiences / recommendations

 

[f0ster]

what might be better than an arduino controller is a siemens logosoft plc, it is about £70 last time I looked, they can be programmed with ladder logic which is the industry standard language for a plc, but if you are not up to speed with ladder logic that can also be programmed with symbols, which is "very" easy to understand, and you can also run a full simulation of the program, there are various types of plc, one that I have used has 8 inputs of which two of them are analogue, and you get four change over relay outputs, plus you can multiply them up if required