Con or not?!? City and Guilds 2391 to 2394 and 2395

[harrison2987]

Hi guys,

What do you lot think the reason is for changing the city and guilds 2391 to 2394 and 2395??

From what i understand the 2391 has now been split into 2 courses and become easier to pass (2394 - Initial Verification and Certification of Electrical Installations and 2395 - Periodic Inspection, Testing and Certification of Electrical Installations).

I know it will also now include amendments aswell, but whats the point in having the 2 courses?

Is this a money maker for the powers that be, and have they made the course easier so more people will attempt it?!?

Please let me know what your thoughts are on this!!

Cheers guys

 

[Englishman]

hmm...

View attachment 19937

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[Englishman]

You definetly have issues big boy. If you speak with people like that in the real world, I guess you are very lucky then if you still with us. Its not that you don't believe D Skelton or not thats offending its the way you speak. All have opinions but there is no need for such attitudes here. And I can repeat again my worst comment, you would not speak to me like that in real world, enaf said.

No luck involved mate...

Thanks for trying to fight his battles, but if he'd have stayed and conversed, you wouldn't be needed, not that you are anyway.
Oh and, of course I wouldn't....

 

[bartkusal]

No luck involved mate...

Thanks for trying to fight his battles, but if he'd have stayed and conversed, you wouldn't be needed, not that you are anyway.
Oh and, of course I wouldn't....

Well, if you would ever stop hiding behind the keyboardand come in the real world speaking nicely with people, you may find what it’sreally going on. You never proved your opinion are you, as said before, if youfeel so strongly about it tell us where you get your info from we may believeyou then, I do know what is widely known but there is always more to thingsthan that. And you shouting loud does not make any impression whatsoever,I told you where I got my info from, and I don't really see the point of lecturer lying to me, because we get on really well, he even asked did I ever thought about teaching myself. And yes, I was speaking nicely to every lecturer.

 

[Englishman]

Well, if you would ever stop hiding behind the keyboardand come in the real world speaking nicely with people, you may find what it’sreally going on. You never proved your opinion are you, as said before, if youfeel so strongly about it tell us where you get your info from we may believeyou then, I do know what is widely known but there is always more to thingsthan that. And you shouting loud does not make any impression whatsoever,I told you where I got my info from, and I don't really see the point of lecturer lying to me, because we get on really well, he even asked did I ever thought about teaching myself. And yes, I was speaking nicely to every lecturer.

Wondered how long it would be before a keyboard warrior comment came up. Football365 forum was like that, if you're not terrified of people mouthing off over the Internet, then you're a keyboard warrior. I'm hiding behind nothing and am always in the real world, I don't change when I come on here.

I only know, in regards to marking of the 2391, what I was told by the blokes reaching me it.

Answer me some questions...

Do you know of any other exams where the pass mark regularly fluctuates? Where one final mark passes and three months later, and mark a lot higher fails?

Do you not think that moving pass marks about, and having situations like the one described above, demeans the exam and makes it pointless?

Logical thinking....

 

[D Skelton]

I'm a liar apparently. Talking out of my ar$e I am....

http://cdn.cityandguilds.com/Produc...2391/Additional_documents/2391-10_FAQs_v1.pdf

Page six, read it and weep...

I'll await the apology that is owed, you can PM it to me if you want as I can't read your posts.

 

[Silly Sausage]

I think the new qual is SlIGHTLY superior for one reason alone. Part of the written is based upon an actual installation instead of being a randomly generated set of questions. The answers require a lot more 'punch' so to speak. Unlike the 2391, some of the answers require a bit more than just a regurgitation of GN3. I wouldn't say the new qual is harder or easier in fact, but you do have to get into the mindset of the chump at C&G who wrote the questions, which can be a bit of a ball ache. There are pros and cons to both I suppose. Like I said tho, to the average jobbing spark, the 2391 offered far superior value for money!

I do want to make clear that I am not in any way saying that I want the 2394/5 to actually replace the 2391! That would be idiotic.

Hmmm, I'd like to see some of the new papers then.
But to show preference over someone who's got 2394/5 over 2391 because you think the exam is harder is a bit short sighted.
Essentially what you're saying is, I'm dissmissing the older spark with 2391 to a novice who's just got their 2394/5.
Ha! I know which I'd consider seriously first!

 

[D Skelton]

No, I think you'll find I said "two sparks EXACTLY the same in every way but one with 91, the other with 95" its a hypothetical situation that will never happen anyway. Its pointless arguing over it mate. I was just making the point that in MY experience, the 2395 was slightly harder, that is all, of course I wouldn't disregard experience over someone fresh out of greens, that would be madness lol.

 

[shagbite]

there is a part of me that's tempted to go for the 2394 & 2395. i know it's madness but i'm a little bit OCD and i like the idea of putting them with my 2396. it's neater than 2391 and 2396. thank christ i can't afford it.

by the way, i'm completely self diagnosed - i think i'm gonna go on a shrink's forum and tell them that i can do what they do, without any training.

 

[bartkusal]

Wondered how long it would be before a keyboard warrior comment came up. Football365 forum was like that, if you're not terrified of people mouthing off over the Internet, then you're a keyboard warrior. I'm hiding behind nothing and am always in the real world, I don't change when I come on here.

I only know, in regards to marking of the 2391, what I was told by the blokes reaching me it.

Answer me some questions...

Do you know of any other exams where the pass mark regularly fluctuates? Where one final mark passes and three months later, and mark a lot higher fails?

Do you not think that moving pass marks about, and having situations like the one described above, demeans the exam and makes it pointless?

Logical thinking....

As I said , there is bigger things going on other then your little world, you can believe what you like, you can use your logic or whatever. What is been said on the news, is not always true either, but I bet you believe every single word. Never mind, you take care, I see this argument with you utterly pointless. I respect your views but definetly not you., and I suppose from now own I should ignore you. Best wishes..

 

[bartkusal]

Nice effort D Skelton, and welcome back.

 

[imsureitsdead!]

I'm new to this and I think we all need to take a deep breath. I teach all electrical courses and before anyone brings up the old "if you can't do, teach" please let me assure you that I have 38 years working experience, have worked all over the world had my own business for 20 years, which continues to be run by my old apprentice, I still "keep my hand in" and I still have much to learn!

2391, 2394, 2395? the're are all much of a muchness really, except for the photographs in the assessment and these can be tricky. It could be said, in the past, that testing is testing is testing! and that any electrical training remains essentially the same. This would be true but for the new challenges we face, harmonics, which will develop over the future years and.....the mere mention can cause heart attacks.....the AM2, which is now compulsory. I would say that this, is the difficult aspect now. you can be good at taking exams and even better at doing "multi guess" but there is no hiding in the AM2 centre and the first time pass rate is quite low (around 30%).

lets face it, all the stuff you did in any of the electrical courses we all took, will never be actually used! so why do we do it? well, City and guilds logic. Good tradesman are problem solvers, they can come up with ideas to get over a situation, so how do we attract problem solvers? we get people that can "do maths" to a certain level!

If in doubt, always look to the electricans eutopia......Canada, they have always insisted on all British electricians holding the AM2 cert in order to gain a Canadian license.

Oh, and yes, I'm afraid the 2396, at the moment, is not worth it. it's a bit like the old C certificate that we all took, not much good jobwise, but no knowledge is wasted.

Be lucky and remember:

You're not working for the client, nor the boss and not even yourself! You're working for the electrician that follows you. Always have him/her in mind

 

[D Skelton]

A top first post. Welcome to the forum

P.S. Cool name by the way

 

[Sparkie30]

I'm new to this and I think we all need to take a deep breath. I teach all electrical courses and before anyone brings up the old "if you can't do, teach" please let me assure you that I have 38 years working experience, have worked all over the world had my own business for 20 years, which continues to be run by my old apprentice, I still "keep my hand in" and I still have much to learn!

2391, 2394, 2395? the're are all much of a muchness really, except for the photographs in the assessment and these can be tricky. It could be said, in the past, that testing is testing is testing! and that any electrical training remains essentially the same. This would be true but for the new challenges we face, harmonics, which will develop over the future years and.....the mere mention can cause heart attacks.....the AM2, which is now compulsory. I would say that this, is the difficult aspect now. you can be good at taking exams and even better at doing "multi guess" but there is no hiding in the AM2 centre and the first time pass rate is quite low (around 30%).

lets face it, all the stuff you did in any of the electrical courses we all took, will never be actually used! so why do we do it? well, City and guilds logic. Good tradesman are problem solvers, they can come up with ideas to get over a situation, so how do we attract problem solvers? we get people that can "do maths" to a certain level!

If in doubt, always look to the electricans eutopia......Canada, they have always insisted on all British electricians holding the AM2 cert in order to gain a Canadian license.

Oh, and yes, I'm afraid the 2396, at the moment, is not worth it. it's a bit like the old C certificate that we all took, not much good jobwise, but no knowledge is wasted.

Be lucky and remember:

You're not working for the client, nor the boss and not even yourself! You're working for the electrician that follows you. Always have him/her in mind

what a 1st post, welcome by the way.

just wondering how you ended up on this thread.