Consumer Unit replacement, suppliers fuse, old cable colours etc.

[redlitchfield]

Hi,

It's my first day on the forum and thought I'd kick off with a few questions.

I've got my first consumer unit replacement to do in the next couple of weeks and would like to clarify a few points.

Here is a photo of the original fuse board:

- As I didn't do the original install (40 odd years ago) am I permitted to do the inspection, testing and certification even though I have yet to do my 2395. I am using this job for my NAPIT assesment.
- The cables coming in are old red and black cables and I will be running new circuits in for a kitchen extension soon. Will I need to just use the "Warning, wiring to different versions of BS 7671..." sticker on the new consumer unit or replace the old cables.

Thanks,

Red

 

[trev]

The first job to do here is a thorough I&T of the installation so you know what to expect when you install your shiny new CU. I believe that NAPIT will let you notify the job after you have been accepted by them but other lads will tell you better than me

 

[trev]

Oh and welcome aboard

 

[redlitchfield]

Thanks Trev. I'm going to go and have a butchers tomorrow with my multi tester just to make sure there's no surprises before I open the proverbial can of worms!

 

[trev]

After reading through your post again I see you're asking whether to fit a mixed colour wiring sticker or replace the old wiring. The latter course of action would mean a full rewire and if it's not necessary don't try to sell it to your customer.
Only your I&T will reveal whether a rewire is needed, unless of course the insulation on the old cables starts to crumble in your hands.
Careful now
I don't understand your bit about "Am I allowed to do XXXXX". It's your job it's your call and as long as it's done safely and notified properly afterwards.......

 

[brucelee]

yeah mate you have to i&t YOUR WORK
and then notify through whoever you chose but make sure its within days of completion so you can then have the necessarry time to notify to labc within 30 days i think really LABC should be told first but in the real world register do the job and cert within a few days of the registration when passed notify unofficially of course good luck

 

[Guitarist]

You will need 3 stickers altogether on your new consumer unit. Just make sure you are really happy with everything that is required of this job before putting it forward for assessment. It sounds like you are not too sure, and that is a little worrying as afterwards you will be let-loose on the general public

 

[Strima]

Go for a full EICR, it will let you know the state of the wiring and is also good practise, better than working on sterile circuits in a classroom. Let us know how many spurs off a spur off a spur you find... :lol:

Testing will also help identify probable faults which will trip an RCD, borrowed neutrals etc. You can also plan what board you want to use and what protective devices you need, leaving a couple of spare ways for future expansion.

Don't forget to check bonding and tails etc. No doubt they'll need upgrading.

Don't be afraid to use the knowledge on this forum, there's a wealth of it.

Most of all enjoy, it's good to get into the real world.

 

[redlitchfield]

Thanks for everybody's responses so far. Yeah that's why I finally joined the forum and popped my first post up here because every time I've had a look on here for something in the past I've pretty much found it with several different and valid opinions. The customer has already told me he's added spurs in the past, so yeah he's probably spurred off a spur off a spur already!

It's not that I'm unsure I'm just thorough, cautious and very aware that I'm dealing with something that kills. It still frightens me for a split second even after proving my voltage indicator that when I touch those terminals etc it's only the plastic handles and cable protecting me! I'm sure that can only be a good approach, rather than complacency!

 

[Edward Amsden]

Another sticker if the lighting has no cpc..

I know of a ccu change for a guy's NAPIT assessment. He didn't add a 10mm for exposed structural steel or incoming water.. He even did the plumbing in copper... A Electrical Trainee kitchen fitter. waloc

Good luck

 

[Spazz]

First of all - Welcome

NAPIT will allow you to sign this job off after you pass the assessment - this is exactly what I did

Any problems talk to Helen or one of the girls in sales - they are great

There is no need to inform LABC as your registering with NAPIT, they will just charge you for inspecting it when you can do this for free (using one of your free 5 credits)

Make sure you have all your paperwork up-to-date and certs done as thats one thing they check.


Just to let you know you wont fail the NAPIT Assessment - if they think you are cause for concern they will go through it all with you to make sure that you know what your doing.

The NAPIT assessor (in Wales) is down to earth and a very decent bloke, so hope they are all like him!


Good Luck!

 

[redlitchfield]

Hi Nicholas,

Yeah the NAPIT sales people have been great, they don't seem to try and push for the hard sell constantly and just want to help.

I just need to go back today, give the original installation a thorough going over, check the main bonding etc and take it from there.

I just need to try and get hold of somebody at Southern Electric now and find out how to organise getting the main fuse removed. Is there usually a charge for this? Also, would they come out in the morning to take it out and then come back later in the day to put it back and re-seal it?

Cheers,

Red

 

[telectrix]

when you go today to give it a going over, just check that the seals have previously been cut.

 

[Guitarist]

Some DNO's will fit a DP isolator free of charge for you (the customer), so maybe worth asking.

 

[redlitchfield]

It appears it has quite a thin main protective conductor on it too!

Would I be able to replace that with a 16mm2 when the DNO have taken the fuse out?

 

[Guitarist]

Only the DNO can touch the main earthing arrangements. They may be willing to take a larger cable to an earth block for you if you need one.

 

[redlitchfield]

Just an update. Scottish and Southern Energy Power Distribution said I could cut the tag to remove the fuse and then go to their local depot to get a temporary tag until they come and replace it with a proper one. More straightforward than I imagined!

 

[Spudnik]

The sse have been quite good recently with this.

It still a good idea to contact them first though.

Also a lot of the new meters they are fitting are self connect with a built in isolator.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[GLENNSPARK]

you need to IR test this install first before replacing with a new C/U that will undoubtedly contain earth-leakage devices....how do you know there aint a borrowed neutral here...you`l need to test for that....a thorough inspection of the install would be prudent here as well....i mean...is there even a CPC on the lighting circuits....it just goes on.....what i am trying to say is this install requires an EICR undertaking on it first BEFORE you procede with anything else....list owt you find that needs sortin....its your 1s and 2s your looking for....and dont forget those essential tests.....

 

[GLENNSPARK]

whats the earthing arrangements here?...done a Ze?....how do you know you have a reliable means of earthing?....your PFC at the origin of supply may dictate the choice of MCB you need as well.... these are all things you need to check first.....

 

[GLENNSPARK]

when it comes to formal inspection ant testing certs...such as the C&G2391...it isn`t a requirement to have em....but they are a way of proving competency.....just be careful though with napit as they have a watered down version of the 2391 which they try to push.....it aint worth a jot outside of napit...unlike the C&G version...

 

[redlitchfield]

Hi Glennspark,

I've already told the client that I will first be doing a thorough inspection and test for the things you've mentioned like borrowed neutrals, lack of cpc's etc. and that anything untoward will need to be sorted before I proceed. He told me that his father in-law used to do 'a bit of electrical work' in the past and when they wanted more sockets they used to get him to do it, so I'll be checking out any spurs etc. Funnily enough he mentioned to me that a friend of his had a new CU fitted and something constantly trips it!

Yeah, I'm going to do the new C&G 2395 at Basingstoke college later in the year

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Hi Glennspark,

I've already told the client that I will first be doing a thorough inspection and test for the things you've mentioned like borrowed neutrals, lack of cpc's etc. and that anything untoward will need to be sorted before I proceed. He told me that his father in-law used to do 'a bit of electrical work' in the past and when they wanted more sockets they used to get him to do it, so I'll be checking out any spurs etc. Funnily enough he mentioned to me that a friend of his had a new CU fitted and something constantly trips it!

Yeah, I'm going to do the new C&G 2395 at Basingstoke college later in the year

well as for the friend of his that has the tripping problem....could be your first paying customer there.....as for this install....go for the obvious stuff first....such as the `extras` he added on...and any other signs of disturbance....normally on a PIR/EICR...you would go for 10% sampling to start with..but keep an open mind.....any crap...then up it to 50% and so on....i would suggest you start at 50% here...go for the things he added for em...then move on....your tests will usually reveal if theres any flim-flam going on with circuits n stuff....IR between neutrals to find the borrowed neutral
(if its there)....and as has already been mentioned....check both earthing AND bonding...CSA and R2....

 

[GLENNSPARK]

dont forget when IR testing that neons and outside lamps will affect the test...so watch out for em....passives, variable resistors and smokes n heats dont like the 500.....so a good practice is to always set your insulation resistance tester to 250V first and test at that to be sure theres no connected loads anywhare.....before upping it to 500V....and that goes for any testing other than an initial verefication......

 

[redlitchfield]

Thanks for that Glenn. This forum has proved in less than a week to be a valuable tool for people's real world advice and opinions, rather than a sterile text book description. I shall keep you updated on my progress/findings/results/how much swearing id involved etc!