Cooker circuit extension???

[Gamma]

Could someone please help me out with this question?
Is it permissible to add a double socket off a fcu, off a cooker circuit. Cant find anything in regs or osg saying not.Background info: Separate oven and hob combined is only 7900w. Cable 10mm. Lenght 8m. Rcd protected with 32a mcb.

 

[patricklondon]

no no no no no

 

[Spudnik]

Why not??

 

[ChristianG]

Just an electricians mate view here, but for isolation purposes, I think it would be best if the socket was either off a ring, spur, or radial socket circuit.

Someone could isolate the socket supply and then get a belt off the cooker supplied socket?

Excuse me if this is the ramblings of a mad man.

 

[Gamma]

no no no no no

Thanks everyone for your valued input. Just to let you know, been intouch with technical helpline (niceic) and had confirmed that it IS ok to extend the cooker circuit. There is nothing in regs to say otherwise and therefore only consideration would be demand. Also, if this helps anyone else out, it is ok to locate sockets in kitchen cupboards (consider a kitchen island)??? Hope this all helps and doesnt offend.

 

[patricklondon]

ok i apologise it was a rubbish post i put my hands up but surely that would be considered bad practise

 

[SirKit Breaker]

ok i apologise it was a rubbish post i put my hands up but surely that would be considered bad practise

I agree mate not something you would normally do, but usually this sort of job is one of those where needs must and making a mess is not an option.

I once had to fit a central heating boiler 3a swithched fuse spur in someones outhouse. There was no way of connecting to a ring or putting a new circuit in either, or at least not without making a hell of a mess.
My only practical option was to tap into the outhouse light, so this is what i did.

There are times when we all need to do the unconventional, but i always ask myself when deviating from the norm "is it safe".

 

[patricklondon]

and that includes leisure activities too?

 

[pushrod]

Could someone please help me out with this question?
Is it permissible to add a double socket off a fcu, off a cooker circuit. Cant find anything in regs or osg saying not.Background info: Separate oven and hob combined is only 7900w. Cable 10mm. Lenght 8m. Rcd protected with 32a mcb.

I know you say NICEIC say its ok but that 32A mcb seems a bit small for the possible demand. The cooker and hob are over 34amps - diversity could argue it down to 24ish amps (10A each for cooker and hob plus 30% of rest)but the 13A of the FCU and is there a socket on the cooker switch (another 5A)? Sounds like a Sunday dinner problem waiting to happen!

 

[Gamma]

I know you say NICEIC say its ok but that 32A mcb seems a bit small for the possible demand. The cooker and hob are over 34amps - diversity could argue it down to 24ish amps (10A each for cooker and hob plus 30% of rest)but the 13A of the FCU and is there a socket on the cooker switch (another 5A)? Sounds like a Sunday dinner problem waiting to happen!

Yes pushrod demand is close (34a demand on cooker and hob. Diversity takes it down to 20a + 5a with socket gives us 25amps) But, modern cooker hobs compensate for loading. One on, one off. Diversity factors are fairly generous and you would need to be extremely unlucky to have everything fully loaded at the same time. If this wasnt the case we would be limited to socket outlets on a ring.
Just to stress one more point : BS 7671 IS good practice, its not law. So, if it isnt written in the big red book, how can it "technically" be bad practice?? Bad practice is doing something that a "skilled person" would reasonably consider unsafe (and I have seen alot of that), placing a socket in a cupboard, spurred from "a glorified radial circuit" is not in my opinion,(or niceic), unsafe.
As an addendum to all of this I would not have wired the circuit in this way by choice but, customer (albeit safe), is always right and it was impossible to achieve it via conventional methods.

 

[pushrod]

Hi Gamma wasn't intending to criticise just really saying that a 40A mcb would still protect a 10mm T&E cable (unless severely derated by installation method) and prevent those "extremely unlucky" moments

 

[Gamma]

Hi Gamma wasn't intending to criticise just really saying that a 40A mcb would still protect a 10mm T&E cable (unless severely derated by installation method) and prevent those "extremely unlucky" moments

No worries pushrod. didnt take it that way. Always after contructive criticism. No body knows everything, especially me.
Discussing what we do on this site is a great help to many sparks and its helped me out on a number of occasions.
Thanks again for your idea regarding 40a breaker