Cost cutting measures / safety

[Worcester]

Thers is a difference bewteen commercial jobs and consumer jobs. Commercial jobs, the customer is equally liable. Hence requiremenst for method statements etc. - They actually have a duty to read them and check them.

 

[moggy1968]

yeh, but things like tethering I would say is specialist knowledge you wouldn't reasonably be expected to know about, and the rule of poo rolling downhill would apply!

 

[Worcester]

As I said, the owner of the building can be liable:

"Garthwest Ltd, , should have followed their own safety procedures but did not do so. They failed to assess the competency of the company they hired and didn't ask for their risk assessment. Nor did they supervise the work or carry out any checks on what safety equipment was being used - which was none."

B18 Tragic Death

 

[moggy1968]

It all comes down to our old friend, 'reasonableness'

A reasonable person would know that someone should not be crawling about on a roof with no safety equipment.
It would largely depend on who was in court on the day I suspect

 

[monkster]

I was allways under the the impression that i'm my own h&s if it looks dodgy then leave it

 

[jason121]

It all comes down to our old friend, 'reasonableness'

A reasonable person would know that someone should not be crawling about on a roof with no safety equipment.
It would largely depend on who was in court on the day I suspect

Unfortunately not. Common sense does not prevail in H&S.Follow the paper trail to letter.

 

[SRE]

I've asked for more specific info - I'll post it when I get it I have to say though that the meeting I was in was attended by an owner of a construction company well known in our area and it's their standard procedure to tether any domestic as well as commercial property - that's their clear understanding from HSE.

 

[Guest111]

As i was always told H&S is everybody's responsibility,regarding prosecutions there is a similar rule of thumb applied as the one the police use when defining reasonable force,and that is what the average joe thinks is reasonable in those circumstances at that time,in a case of heights for example it could be put as follows " if you had to work on something in good dry calm weather that was 6 feet off the ground would the average man in the street think it reasonable to do this off a ladder? probably yes,think homeowner cleaning windows. If work was at roof height and involved shifting a lot of heavy equipment would joe public do all that off a ladder? probably not.The way they can argue to prosecute the homeowner is to ask the question "did you think what they were doing was safe,would you do it that way?" customer replies "no" hse then respond with "well the work is being carried out on your property at your request why didn't you tell them to stop?"I had dealings with the HSE last year and giving the correct answers to their questions is like walking a minefield,the bod we dealt with came up with a classic.Q when you have tested the installation and come to connect and energise how will you be isolating supply?
A using main isolator,Q when carrying out live testing how will you ensure that no one is put at risk? A by carrying out these tests when all other personnel have left site. HSE bod "oh not sure I like that isn,t there a safer way?

 

[Gavin A]

I've asked for more specific info - I'll post it when I get it I have to say though that the meeting I was in was attended by an owner of a construction company well known in our area and it's their standard procedure to tether any domestic as well as commercial property - that's their clear understanding from HSE.

ask them both what they think the maximum horizontal loading should be for a single brick with pointing of unknown strength at the top of the wall (so it's not necessarily got much downward force on it to hold it in place).

Then ask what they think the maximum sideways force is of scaffolding tipping sideways away from the wall.

I'd take proper outriggers every day of the week over a bolt into a brick where the brick could just pull out, though obviously if outriggers aren't possible then properly tying it in to the wall would be necessary.

I believe our scaffolding firm does effectively tie in to the building to some extent by running the cross bars below the top platform so they're hard up against the soffits, which is intended as a safeguard against the scaffolding tipping.

If your scaf firm is tying everything in, I'd suspect that's a peculiar quirk in the area probably introduced by the local HSE enforcement practices, I've certainly never seen it from any of the firms we've used in Yorkshire, Manc, or Scotland where outriggers have been used.

 

[SRE]

I haven't got much more info but this is the email from the firm involved.

We received FFI (fee for intervention) & others have also received in Decembers audit. Technically it is a requirement under TG20 and has caused a bit of debate.
Our scaffolders are now placing ties as HSE request.

Our scaffolding firm doesn't tie in - that's why I'm concerned but the building contractor I work with on Green Deal does tie all of his work in and has done for years. It's standard practice for them. I don't pretend to know what is required for TG20, I'm just letting everyone know what HSE are saying as of Dec 2012 in the hope that it will help