Could electrolysis be an energy storage medium for our next energy future?

[justcurioustwo]

Could electrolysis be an energy storage medium for our next energy future

If we can decipher what causes a water molecule in saltwater to break apart, we can then re-unite the H2 and O releasing the heat in the reaction.

How does DC current passing through saltwater cause this molecule to split apart-?

Is it the frequency of the electric charge and if so can this same frequency be replicated by a similar means at less cost-?

In the Hoffamn Electrolysis apparatus shown here, the water molecule splits apart and H2 goes one way and the O goes the other way. Where does this separation take place, in the center or the (+) side or (--) side?

But most importantly, can the explosive reaction create enough heat energy to make it worthwhile?

For example, wind turbines produce energy when the wind is blowing but have no way to store this energy for later use. What if we used this excess electric energy to electrolysis seawater and store the hydrogen for future use-?

 

[ElectroChem]

Oh, God, he's back.

OK. let's take this in order since you've managed to keep the crazy under control at least in your opening post.

Could electrolysis be an energy storage medium for our next energy future

Maybe, currently it's not really efficient at large scales for energy storage scenarios. Understand that electrolysis is not an energy storage technique in itself, it's just a way of converting electrical energy to chemical energy in the form of hydrogen and oxygen. Just like charging a battery converts electrical energy to chemical energy in the electrolyte/electrodes.

If we can decipher what causes a water molecule in saltwater to break apart, we can then re-unite the H2 and O releasing the heat in the reaction.

We know exactly how electrolysis works, I'm not sufficiently versed at quantum electrodynamics to give you the full formulae but suffice to say the electrical energy splits the H-O-H bonds and produces Hydrogen and Oxygen gas which can be stored. Yes, you can then recombine the Hydrogen and Oxygen via combustion or in a fuel cell to recover the energy input. And no, you can't get enough energy this way to run the electrolysis cell and have more left over. We've been down this path before so don't start.

How does DC current passing through saltwater cause this molecule to split apart-?

Is it the frequency of the electric charge and if so can this same frequency be replicated by a similar means at less cost-?

As above, the details are complicated but the concept is simple. Low energy water plus electricity give high energy hydrogen and oxygen gas. DC current doesn't have frequency, the electrolysis reaction occurs at a specific voltage potential and the rate is proportional to the current. There are various additives and catalysts that improve the efficiency but there is a hard limit of how little power you can supply to split a molecule of known bond energy. No special tricks allowed.

In the Hoffamn Electrolysis apparatus shown here, the water molecule splits apart and H2 goes one way and the O goes the other way. Where does this separation take place, in the center or the (+) side or (--) side?

Both at the + and - sides actually. At the anode, O- gives up electrons and forms O2 gas, the H+ dissolves into solution. At the cathode, H+ receives electrons and forms H2 gas and O- dissolves. The dissolved ions migrate through solution and either recombine to water or reach the other electrode to form their respective gasses. This is why electrolysis of pure water is hard, the H+/O- need electrolytes to stabilise their solvation and reduce the energy required.

But most importantly, can the explosive reaction create enough heat energy to make it worthwhile?

For example, wind turbines produce energy when the wind is blowing but have no way to store this energy for later use. What if we used this excess electric energy to electrolysis seawater and store the hydrogen for future use-?View attachment 54862

Well, that's complicated. Electrolysis has promise as a source of hydrogen for fuel, heaven knows it can't be worse than steam cracking of natural gas, which has to be the dirtiest way to make clean fuel I've ever heard of.

The challenges lie in ramping up electrolysis to industrial scales and advances in storing and using hydrogen, which is a difficult gas to work with as it requires very cold temperatures and high pressures to be worthwhile. A breakthrough in hydride adsorption or similar could be the way to a viable hydrogen fuel economy, but that's a quest for materials scientists, not this admittedly less than humble electrician/chemist.

 

[DPG]

Be careful. I believe anyone that has ever mentioned electrolysis has been murdered by a poison tipped umbrella.

 

[Pete E]

This technology has been around for over 50 years in the form of hydrogen fuel cells. These convert oxygen and hydrogen into electricity, with water as the by product..

Most famously it was the source of the explosion that almost destroyed Apollo 13..

 

[ipf]

With all the excess eating and drinking carried out over Christmas, I would imagine we could well generate enough to power a city for a day. What a waste of WIND power...…...we can all dream

 

[justcurioustwo]

There are efforts being made to “store” the unused wind energy; as in the article below:

The biggest problem with wind and solar energy is that they're intermittent. There might be violent winds one day, and calm skies the next; broiling sunshine on Monday and 100% cloud cover on Tuesday. Some argue this problem is easily overcome by storing any excess energy in batteries until it's needed at a later time.

There have been successful pilot projects around the world showing you can set up solar panels that, after filling the grid, use any excess electricity to heat gravel, heat-carrying chemicals, or water stored in tanks deep underground. With enough insulation, the heat could be stored for months, until it’s needed in homes nearby, and delivered to them via pipes and heat pumps. (This heat energy can also be converted to run air conditioners, where cooling is needed instead of heating.)

Batteries can't solve all our energy-storage problem. Here's the solution - https://qz.com/1133123/batteries-cant-solve-the-worlds-biggest-energy-storage-problem-one-startup-has-a-solution/

The above “storage” solution is to heat rocks which is a very inefficient means of storage. I still believe Electrolysis is the solution, store the hydrogen instead.

 

[static zap]

store the hydrogen instead.

Hydrogen is a bit of an escape artist , this does boost costs !

 

[PEG]

My missus uses this process to de-fluff her legs...and come January sales.they move like turbine blades,so,maybe there's something in it...