Couple of EICR schedule of test results questions

[oldtimer]

I'd also leave the single socket connected where it was as anything plugged into it would gain protection from the fuse in the plug top. To be honest, it doesn't present an immediate danger so while I think it's terrible and we would all love to give it a C1 I think a C2 (potentially dangerous, urgent remedial action required) would be more appropriate. After all, it would still result in an unsatisfactory report on that alone.
For it to truly warrant a C1 there would have to be danger present so unless there's exposed live conductors or cable damage then there isn't danger present.

Gary I am bemused at this as far as i am concerned it would take me 5 minutes to resolve and I have fixed about 20 of these types of problems in the last 25 years and i just cannot understand why anybody would leave it like this I even found an alarm connected this way on a survey so I removed the CU cover and relocated the cable on to a 5 amp circuit the customer was impressed he even said to me that does not mean I will give you the job and I said well at least I can sleep at night 2 weeks later his wife phoned to say i had the job and when I was doing it she said there was somebody who was £40 cheaper than me but his level of service was take it or leave it

 

[GaryM]

Where's the immediate danger though? No exposed live parts that require an immediate disconnection.
Wouldn't you discuss the defect with the client and ask them if they would like you to rectify it? I would.
An EICR is a report of your findings, nothing more.

 

[GaryM]

GaryM

True, but what if the cable's damaged. The plug top isn't protecting that.

Didn't you read my post above?

For it to truly warrant a C1 there would have to be danger present so unless there's exposed live conductors or cable damage then there isn't danger present.

For the record, I wouldn't leave any exposed live parts without attempting a disconnection or making them safe.

 

[oldtimer]

Didn't you read my post above?



For the record, I wouldn't leave any exposed live parts without attempting a disconnection or making them safe.

So you would be quite happy to make an exposed live part safe whilst doing the EICR but you would leave a circuit being protected by the DNO cut out fuse and just mark it up as unsatisfactory well maybe I am looking at this all the wrong way but in my book leaving it safe is what I would do and again we are talk 5 minutes here not half a shift and £50 worth of materials

 

[Tonkatoy27]

It's a question of where you draw the line and how much work you want to do for free. in this instance this fault would probably be the first one spotted and easily fixed and you'd be happy to do it. 2 hours later however when you've found 10 more small easily fixed C2 non compliances you'd be a bit hacked off fixing them all as you've spent nearly an hour at 5 mins a time on each non compliance and you can bet your socks that the client won't pay for an hours labour on top of a test fee they already see as extortionate. (An EICR is only filling out a bit of paper isn't it?)

 

[SPARTYKUS]

So you would be quite happy to make an exposed live part safe whilst doing the EICR but you would leave a circuit being protected by the DNO cut out fuse and just mark it up as unsatisfactory well maybe I am looking at this all the wrong way but in my book leaving it safe is what I would do and again we are talk 5 minutes here not half a shift and £50 worth of materials

Thats the bit I'm bemused about. I agree with oldtimer I'd just fix it. Its not safe! As for C1/C2 we could discuss all day

yes I know strictly speaking we're just there to REPORT but, well, I'm not going to leave things that take a few minutes to rectify. Never have never will.

 

[GaryM]

So you would be quite happy to make an exposed live part safe whilst doing the EICR but you would leave a circuit being protected by the DNO cut out fuse and just mark it up as unsatisfactory well maybe I am looking at this all the wrong way but in my book leaving it safe is what I would do and again we are talk 5 minutes here not half a shift and £50 worth of materials

Yes (technically, maybe not morally), based on the the fact it's not an immediate danger to the end user considering protection would be from the plug top fuse and assuming the socket and cable feeding isn't damaged.
There's nothing wrong with disconnecting it but I'm just highlighting the fact that it's not as bad as it first looks and will have protection when used but it's not a C1.

 

[oldtimer]

Thats the bit I'm bemused about. I agree with oldtimer I'd just fix it. Its not safe! As for C1/C2 we could discuss all day

yes I know strictly speaking we're just there to REPORT but, well, I'm not going to leave things that take a few minutes to rectify. Never have never will.

Sadly these types of things can become a jobs worth situation I found something like this doing a PIR and it took me less than 5 minutes to rectify plus I noted it on my documentation and also this type of thing really concerns me as it comes back to what i was saying before this forum is here in my view to raise standards and awareness

 

[GaryM]

As for C1/C2 we could discuss all day

Where do you see the immediate danger, as in, no other steps are required to access danger?
We're assuming no damage to the cables insulation and the socket and back box is in a good state of repair.

 

[SJD]

Thanks for the further comments and interesting discussion.

I'd like to mention one more thing about the installation that might have some bearing on what you would do. The socket circuit cables are very old, rubber insulation (L & N in metal conduit). The insulation is fine if not moved or otherwise damaged, but as soon as you bend a cable the hardened rubber cracks and is liable to fall off. As soon as you start any work, you could soon end up having to replace the whole circuit. In this case (1), I felt the only option was to very carefully cut off the offending cable at the back of the incoming side of the fuse holder, and then carefully cut it out and remove it in pieces. To avoid damaging the other cables, I can assure oldtimer I took a lot longer than 5 minutes to do it!

Steve.

 

[Tonkatoy27]

I bet it did, I also bet it was work not charged for, well done.
It also proves that it's been there for what, fifty or sixty years without accident, I wouldn't of called that an 'immediate danger'
Nightmare EICR as with inpecting everything I'll bet alot of the cables were in a worse condition when you finished than when you started, nothing you could do about it, just the way it is. BIG advisory letter recommending the client considers a rewire I suppose.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Where do you see the immediate danger, as in, no other steps are required to access danger?
We're assuming no damage to the cables insulation and the socket and back box is in a good state of repair.

GaryM

you're right, I agree, C1 too high.