UK Cowboy electrician

[Bob Geldoff1234]

This was installed by an "electrician" 4 months ago.Single RCD feeding 5 breakers for a two bedroom,two story house.
The lady was charged £675 for this crap and was told she'd get a certificate,which no matter how much she rings them up,doesn't seem to be forth coming.I wonder why?
It really makes my blood boil when I see stuff like this and they even get away with charging over the odds for it.

 

[ferg]

Baiting aside for a minute..

I don't have an issue with dual RCD boards.
Because of where I live I need to keep most items in stock so boxes of Hager RCBo's gets pretty expensive pretty quickly.

Any brand I stock I have to be able to get from wholesalers who deliver reliably to my area.
Ordering online can be hit and miss for delivery times sometimes a couple of days but more often nearer a week or beyond. Carriage charges are also sometimes prohibitive.

I always give my domestic customers the option and invariably they choose dual RCD.

 

[davesparks]

.
Regulation 314 tells us to minimise inconveniences in the event of a fault, a dual rcd board does just that, just not as good as individual rcbos.

Dual RCD boards reduce inconvenience, they do not minimise it.
RCBO's minimise inconvenience.

Minimise means to make as small as possible.

 

[GBDamo]

years ago, it used to be the norm to put the highest rated MCB next to the main switch and scale down along the busbar. it was as pointless then as it is now. my preference is not to put heavily loaded MCBs adjacent to each other, irrespective of rating.this is so you don't end up with 2 warm breakers warning each other.

I would love for you to expand on why its pointless.

The idea of not having heavily loaded MCB bunched together seems intuitive, after all we don't bunch up high load cables.

Makes sense in a way.

 

[Ian1981]

Dual RCD boards reduce inconvenience, they do not minimise it.
RCBO's minimise inconvenience.

Minimise means to make as small as possible.

Yet they still do. You can arrange the circuits to fit any inconvenience you like.
One lighting circuit one side and one the other, down sockets on one rcd ,upstairs on other etc.
Rcbo boards are clearly a step up but dual rcd boards can and are used to comply.

 

[GBDamo]

Baiting aside for a minute..

I don't have an issue with dual RCD boards.
Because of where I live I need to keep most items in stock so boxes of Hager RCBo's gets pretty expensive pretty quickly.

Any brand I stock I have to be able to get from wholesalers who deliver reliably to my area.
Ordering online can be hit and miss for delivery times sometimes a couple of days but more often nearer a week or beyond. Carriage charges are also sometimes prohibitive.

I always give my domestic customers the option and invariably they choose dual RCD.

BG from Screwfix, less than £20 for an RCBO. Short form, no functional earth, whats not to love

 

[davesparks]

Yet they still do. You can arrange the circuits to fit any inconvenience you like.
One lighting circuit one side and one the other, down sockets on one rcd ,upstairs on other etc.

They reduce, not minimise, all RCBO's will always reduce the inconvenience to a minimum by limiting it to one circuit. Dual rcd boards will take out multiple circuits, this is reduced inconvenience but not minimised.

 

[Ian1981]

They reduce, not minimise, all RCBO's will always reduce the inconvenience to a minimum by limiting it to one circuit. Dual rcd boards will take out multiple circuits, this is reduced inconvenience but not minimised.

If that was true then the regulations would specifically only allow a single circuit to have additional protection yet we have 531.3.5.2 and 531.3.2.
There is nothing in bs7671 that prevents the use of dual rcd’s, triple rcd’s or the like for subdivision of circuits for the installation
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Baiting aside for a minute..

I don't have an issue with dual RCD boards.
Because of where I live I need to keep most items in stock so boxes of Hager RCBo's gets pretty expensive pretty quickly.

Any brand I stock I have to be able to get from wholesalers who deliver reliably to my area.
Ordering online can be hit and miss for delivery times sometimes a couple of days but more often nearer a week or beyond. Carriage charges are also sometimes prohibitive.

I always give my domestic customers the option and invariably they choose dual RCD.

I find people will not give the dual rcd board as an option . Single rcbo’s are better, but we also have to consider being economical with a customers budget, we might want to fit the most expensive accessories for our own individual liking but the customers budget may only allow for a more cheaper alternative, same can be said for dual rcd boards.
Maybe these type of clients are not for everyone or maybe you could help them out?

 

[nicebutdim]

CP Fusebox compact RCBOs are finally available. Their size is of little relevance, but it's worth noting that they also disconnect neutral and bring another DP option to a market that will benefit greatly from competition on price.

At less than £20 (for the avoidance of doubt, this price includes VAT), they're considerably more competitive than the small number of alternatives currently available.

 

[ferg]

BG from Screwfix, less than £20 for an RCBO. Short form, no functional earth, whats not to love

The week or so it sometimes takes for them to get here.

Edit:

And the BG part, the £20 each part when I have to keep so much stock. etc, etc.
[automerge]1597317170[/automerge]

Dual RCD boards reduce inconvenience, they do not minimise it.
RCBO's minimise inconvenience.

Minimise means to make as small as possible.

If you take that argument far enough then each individual socket, light etc would be on it's own RCBO protected circuit.

I agree wholeheartedly that RCBO's are the better solution but they are not the only one.

 

[Lister1987]

Bloodyvhel this thread decended into anarchy quickly.

we are trying to avoid discriminating against the short course qualified sparks,

In @Bob Geldoff1234 defence, he said 3 weak wunder, which would mean short course dropout ? much much worse than a short course spark.

 

[SparkyChick]

In @Bob Geldoff1234 defence, he said 3 weak wunder, which would mean short course dropout ? much much worse than a short course spark.

And I could infer that the average time served apprenticed spark is garbage compared to this particular short course spark if I was to show some of the garbage jobs I've seen that I know have been done by such people, or the shoddy new build installs done by supposedly reputable companies that make a big deal of churning out apprenticed sparks.

But it's not your route into the industry that will govern whether you produce rubbish work and/or follow the rules. It's your own personal work ethic and morals, which is why such statements are so annoying to those of us who went the short route (especially if we've gone on to undertake the same final qualifications as apprenticed sparks). We aren't all idiots, so it's been quite refreshing that this attitude hasn't been on display here for a while. Let's try and keep it that way.

 

[telectrix]

And I could infer that the average time served apprenticed spark is garbage compared to this particular short course spark if I was to show some of the garbage jobs I've seen that I know have been done by such people, or the shoddy new build installs done by supposedly reputable companies that make a big deal of churning out apprenticed sparks.

But it's not your route into the industry that will govern whether you produce rubbish work and/or follow the rules. It's your own personal work ethic and morals, which is why such statements are so annoying to those of us who went the short route (especially if we've gone on to undertake the same final qualifications as apprenticed sparks). We aren't all idiots, so it's been quite refreshing that this attitude hasn't been on display here for a while. Let's try and keep it that way.

you yourself are one of the few short course sparks that have gone into the short course with the knowledge and background to beat the odds and become a competent sparks. it's not like you've come from a call centre operative that doesn't know what a RCD is.

 

[Dustydazzler]

If I change a board now I don’t even bother giving both options Anymore

it’s rcbo Board or nothing

 

[ipf]

But it's not your route into the industry that will govern whether you produce rubbish work and/or follow the rules. It's your own personal work ethic and morals, which is why such statements are so annoying to those of us who went the short route (especially if we've gone on to undertake the same final qualifications as apprenticed sparks). We aren't all idiots, so it's been quite refreshing that this attitude hasn't been on display here for a while. Let's try and keep it that way.

I'll agree with you there SC, regarding domestics in general...but it is all dependant upon your highlighted point.....and experience. It can be the exception rather than the rule.

I hope we aren't talking about a bit of Prejudice here?
SCSM.....Short Course Sparks M.... ? No way am I taking the
kneeHeHe!!

 

[Lister1987]

you yourself are one of the few short course sparks that have gone into the short course with the knowledge and background to beat the odds and become a competent sparks. it's not like you've come from a call centre operative that doesn't know what a RCD is.

I resemble that remark. ?