Cowboys

[BillyH]

They're not all cowboys.There are plenty of sparks who work direct for companies that do cash jobs on the side, often with company material.
Sub contract sparks on large housing projects always do rewires without notification. It does'nt mean the work will be any less compliant with regs,but only with Part P which we all know is almost totally uninforcable

 

[Adam W]

I thought this is what Part P is supposed to be doing. Making all (most) work accountable with names, addresses and certificates?

That's not going to do much if you don't get a certificate at all.

"That'll be fifty quid to make the lights work, and another fifty quid for a bit of paper with some numbers on it which don't mean anything to you"
"OK just make the lights work then."
"Fine."

 

[Geordie Spark]

Its time well all got together to stop the man in the pub doing house rewire's etc, its killing the industry.

What do you propose we do .... get together in a vigilante style mob, hunt them down & beat the carp out of them with baseball bats???

 

[Jabbajaws]

I'm in agreement with you guys and think that the law should prevent DIY electrics and require some minimum qualification to be held to even touch the electrical installation. It has been done for gas, why can't it be done for electric as well.

You don't hear of people who are 'competent' gas installers, but have no quals being allowed to fit gas systems, which is prevented by law, unless corgi registered/gas safe etc...

And whilst l understand that gas is an explosive material, with the potential to cause deadly harm, my arguement is, so is electricity.

It cannot be seen and is just as deadly. Joe Bloggs who decides to undercut everyone at the pub, probably hasn't had the training (hence the cheapness) and l for one could not believe that after 3 years of training with theory, practical and all the health & safety they crammed into my brain now have to pay £500 per year which Joe Bloggs could just come along pass the assessment on the day, making him 'competent'.

I think that a portfolio type system should be used in place of Part P, to demonstrate what a person has actually done. This would help drive out some of the undesirables. Part P should be abolished and the regs should be divided into two main sections, Statutory & Non-Statutory. that way you have all of it in one place. You would know instantly what you are allowed/required to do, with the other section being judgement based...

 

[oldtimer]

So where did this all go wrong then well here is my thinking on it I served 4 years then another 2 years for improving to get approved level and the system worked a treat then Maggie Thatcher took over and said let the market decide so it did and it virtually done away with training and the need for a vision to see that eventually a lot of sparks would retire and because we went to a service economy then a lot of sparks divercified into alarm,facilities maintenance, plant maintenance etc now "trade" thought hold hold there is a shortage here lets fast track it but at the same time lets try and manage it ie make them register with the very people who were meant to be policing our industry now we have a self serving virtual monopoly who run about collecting "subs" and dont care who can sit and pass an exam within 6 weeks as long as they pay their subs and as for stopping people doing their own electrical work well guys me thinks you are missing the point because this is the very thing that keeps them in a job

 

[revelap]

I agree, I thought that was the whole point of us spending hard earnt cash to register with the various bodies available to us who promised to outlaw the yahoo cowboys !!

 

[Spoon]

I think that Des #9 point seems to be the case. Not enough people have died. Electrical faults usually only kill one person. Gas faults can take out a street.

 

[Busbar]

Well its about time we followed Europ after all we are susposed to be part of it

Forget the EU, it's got less teeth than a gold fish and doesn't give a damn outside of Brussels.

I've retired to Cyprus and I can report the domestic electrics here are deadly.

My villa completed late 2009 (Developer Polydefkis) had no RCD protection, just MCBs. My earth rod was an 62cm bit of zinc plated steel pipe clubbed into the ground. The earth wire was attached using a stainless Jubilee Clip.
The armour feed to the pool pump house had been cut through and rejoined inside an IP45 plastic box. Brass glands were used but as we all know plastic just isn't a good conductor. How did I find the latter, well I had a buzz (touch voltage) on the pool pump so I knew the earth was missing. It didn't take long to find as the armour was only 10 cm below the gravel!
The 16 amp feed to the immersion heater was split half way up where it branched off to feed the jacuzzi bath.
Loads of spurs everywhere. What a nightmare.

AHK, the electricity distributer and enforcer visited to see for themselves. They couldn't believe what I showed them then were quick to point out it wasn't their responsibility to check the developers work.

So, cowboys here abound and flourish and there is no platform for redress. Having said that, AHK have stated that domestic installations must now comply to the UK 16th Ed issue 1. Who is going to enforce that I wonder......

If you ask a Cypriot about harmonisation they will all start humming the same tune. Grrrrrrr.

Busbar (Industrial Elect).

 

[Engineer54]

Hi ya BusBar, ...and welcome!!!

I'm another Brit that lives in Cyprus, i'm in the Larnaca area though not there at the moment. Your not alone in your concerns, fortunately, i was around when most of my house was being built, but still had a few surprises none the less.

 

[pblec]

i think the governing bodies should do more to promote this to the gen public rather than bitch between each other over whose best

PIR's should be enforced more, i hoped with the old HIP the would become mandatory it didn't.

i send a copy of my registration cert when i quote saying its about raising consumer awareness about only using reputable tradesmen

 

[mcs.serv]

This is what just happened to me.
Monday Eve, went to look at small job. Customer seemed very knowledgeable about pee etc
Job Details:
Remove 4 off ceiling fan/light fittings, replace with MK pendants
Remove 4 off 1G 1W brass switches, replace with MK white
Remove 2 off 2G brass sockets, replace with MK white
Remove 1off 45A pull switch, replace with MK white

Customer requested a minor cert for works ( 4 circuits)

Have just phoned him with quote, after some abuse about me being a robbing b**********, he informed me a friend of his has quoted him £100.00 so I wont be getting the job.
I asked if the friends quote included the certs. His reply, " for a 100 quid I don't really care"
Haven't put on what I quoted, just wanted to see what you guys would quote, I'll let you now after a few replies

Cheers Martin

 

[malcolmsanford]

To be honest MCS that looks like 2-3 hours work. I would be thinking perhaps 80-90 pounds for that, if local and depending on what accessories the customer wanted.

 

[pblec]

why are you issuing a cert its like for like sort yourself a standard letter basicaly saying all work done is complient, blah, blah but no certification is required,

i use them for cooker installs, and replacing light fittings for tennants to prove the work was done correctly - i know i could use an invoice but its for pound notes!

another thing that price did seem steep, but i don't know your area or competitions rates

 

[kung]

Just renewed my NICEIC membership for the 3rd year £475.00 and insurance next week is due then the usual coffee and scone with the onsite assessment and another year battling against the rogues ! What a crock ! my JIB card says im competent and it also costs us £475.00 and an onsite to prove we are so why not have a loophole where we can take our JIB cards to the LABC and insurance and this enables us to bypass the schemes and satisfys LABC were competent enough to do the stinking job we've qualified for and doing for years ?
Part p grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

 

[Deleted member 26818]

As far as I'm aware, the JIB has provided access for the LABCs to the card data base.
So if they wanted to, the LABCs could easily ascertain whether someone is in the JIB, and whether they were competent.