Customer won't pay to correct dangerous wiring | Page 3 | on ElectriciansForums

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brennybig

Asked to put a new 32amp cooker circuit into an old wylex 6 way board. Explained that I needed to split meter tails and install a new CU with RCD protection for cooker. Suggested a new CU for the whole house but customer unwilling to pay and insists on wiring new cooker circuit to old board which I am unwilling to do as no RCD protection. I am happy to walk away from the job but I noticed that there is a 5 socket radial circuit (2 sockets are in the kitchen) with 2.5mm cable except for the cable from the old wylex CU to the first socket which is only 1.5mm. Explained it had to be changed to a ring main with the correct cable and hence it will also need RCD protection. It is a dangerous setup and customer insists it has worked for years so unwilling to pay for corrective work. I can't just walk away and leave it unsafe! Do I just remove the 1.5mm cable between CU and first socket for safety reasons, upsetting the customer as the sockets will no longer work, or am I expected to do all the corrective work at my own expense by converting it to a ring main (without RCD)? I feel at present that I should remove the 1.5mm cable and tell the upset customer that he needs to get it properly repaired when he has the money. He is running a dishwasher, tumble drier and washing machine on these sockets at present!! Any thoughts?

Cheers

Brenny
 
And thats where the system falls down. Whats worse no power and use of torches and blankets or 3 kids die in a housefire because the "parents" fail to have their home properly maintained??
Problem is no one in authority has a clue and are terrified of upsetting the militant mummy brigade "Tiegan missed druggytubbies and I had to play with her, thats no on", many local authorities fired their "clerk of works" who had a clue and replaced them with "inspectors" who turn up in many cases in nice shiny suits and shoes, take a quick glance and leave (well round my road anyways)
Other problem is differing views, I take the view that if there are defects then the homeowner should be required to have them rectified by law or have those circuits or their whole supply isolated until they comply.
As mentioned above, requiring regular inspections of electricity, gas and general house structure (wind/water tightness) as a pre-requisite for insurance coverage would improve things by a large margin (along with requiring buildings cover by law), the problem would be stopping the cowboys of this world looking the other way to appease some stroppy householder or writing a cert on a bad install for an off the books cash payment.
Its not likely to get sorted as its a long term issue, and govts for years have been more interested in the short term bodges than a proper long term fix.


Now I know what TNS stands for.....
(Total Nanny State)
 
Had a few customers like this, they make you sick. Loads of money & won't part with it. Doesn't make me feel guilty any more. Stuff him, walk away. There are so many that will put on the sob story & expect it done for nothing :nopity:

Yep I agree it is all about priorities ie I dont want to spend ÂŁ500 making my home safer when I can buy a spoiler kit for my ÂŁ25k car that i bought and yes one of my family could be electrocuted because I did not bother my butt but I will tell you this if I hear someone trying to steal my pride and joy I will run out their and as they are driving away I will jump on the bonnet and get hold of the wipers so the can speed down the road and then brake hard sending me crashing into a wall or a skip so that no one can tell me what to spend my money on and any way electrics I never see them they are in a cupboard under the stair out of site out of mind.

Mind you we could get the regs changed to get new consumer units fitted above the fireplace in the living room my today must be Friday
 
And thats where the system falls down. Whats worse no power and use of torches and blankets or 3 kids die in a housefire because the "parents" fail to have their home properly maintained??
Problem is no one in authority has a clue and are terrified of upsetting the militant mummy brigade "Tiegan missed druggytubbies and I had to play with her, thats no on", many local authorities fired their "clerk of works" who had a clue and replaced them with "inspectors" who turn up in many cases in nice shiny suits and shoes, take a quick glance and leave (well round my road anyways)
Other problem is differing views, I take the view that if there are defects then the homeowner should be required to have them rectified by law or have those circuits or their whole supply isolated until they comply.
As mentioned above, requiring regular inspections of electricity, gas and general house structure (wind/water tightness) as a pre-requisite for insurance coverage would improve things by a large margin (along with requiring buildings cover by law), the problem would be stopping the cowboys of this world looking the other way to appease some stroppy householder or writing a cert on a bad install for an off the books cash payment.
Its not likely to get sorted as its a long term issue, and govts for years have been more interested in the short term bodges than a proper long term fix.

It should be the same as it is with gas. A mate of mine works for British Gas, if it's dangerous, they issue a notice & instant I.D. (Instant Disconnection). It's then up to the home owner to get it sorted out before the supply can be reconnected. This happens Summer or Winter, whether the can afford it or not, it makes no difference. Safety is what's important!
 
It should be the same as it is with gas. A mate of mine works for British Gas, if it's dangerous, they issue a notice & instant I.D. (Instant Disconnection). It's then up to the home owner to get it sorted out before the supply can be reconnected. This happens Summer or Winter, whether the can afford it or not, it makes no difference. Safety is what's important!

The problem with that is unless we have been using a tradesman/woman for a long time we do not trust them. There are too many programs on TV telling us that there are cowboys everywhere. Also the system would be abused by people disconnecting the electricity for "mayor faults" which are not, just to get more money out of the customer... we all know it would happen.
The few always spoil things for the many!!!
 
Had a similar sit yesterday. Customer called me out to connect up a shower, wire already in place. Easy job i thought! Arrive in the bathroom and yep all three conductors are sticking out the wall above the bath still live! No RCD on an old rewireable fuse. Advise the customer they need a DB change or at least a small shower DB with RCD for me to connect, whilst still advising that the sockets in his home still need to be RCD protected. Customer not having any of it, so I just put my concerns in writing and a Quote for changing the DB and a full inspection and test. Dont expect to hear from him again.

If we had the authority to disconnect everytime we came across a dangerous situaction, that would be a whole lot of homes without power due poor installations & changing regulations.
 
Not permitted to remove the fuse without the customers permission, which he was not willing to give as it was a shared fuse with the ring final. It never amazes me anymore the stupid and dangerouse installations I come across. We have all these regulations and are completly helpless to enforce them unless we do the work.

As a scuba diver a cannot buy a bottle of compressed air without showing my Diving qualifications, yet I can buy all the kit i need to rewire a house without being questioned on whether I hold the qualifications to do the work, the regulations are not worth the paper they are printed on until it is properly policed.
 
Yep thats what makes us British we skimp on the electrics but we will strip down to our underpants and crawl out on thin ice to try and save a stupid dog that 99% of the time would find its way to shore (just as the owner is drowning) plus we will pay ÂŁ1500 a pop on a visit to the Vet.

Priorities thats what makes us British
 
Now I know what TNS stands for.....
(Total Nanny State)

I wholly disagree, Protecting other occupants who have no other way to protect themselves (i.e. kids, the severely disabled etc) from the primary occupier's criminal stupidity is something that needs to be sorted out. Instead seemingly some would rather the problem stay ignored, either electrics is a professional trade and takes on the responsibility of having the power cut off when things are not safe.
The solution to cowboys cutting power off could be as simple as an intermediary, disagree with the power being shut off, someone sent out, if they agree the fault is serious enough to warrant the shut off, it stays shut off, customer (potentially) gets a bill for the inspection, if its a cowboy seeking work, then power goes back on and they get stick / prosecuted.
I think taking it through insurance is the best solution (inspection every 5 to 10 years (unless wiring aged and in need of modernisation / alterations planned), central database of when the last check was done and any notes made about the installation with digital photos of areas needing attention (if we really want to be watertight)
People wouldn't have it, some cry.....all it takes is a few kids to die in a housefire due to bad electrics and the "think of children brigade" will be looking for a target to blame and if they realise that the gas guys would have shut off the gas, then they will wonder why the spark didn't shut off the power if it was that bad. Alongside the usual sue first think later mentality, using the cover of "ordinary person" who isn't legally expected to know the dangers of electricity, compared with instructed and competent persons, who are expected to understand the dangers and act accordingly.
tbh I see this turning into a right royal mess and bad law unless something is done pre-emptively to try and push for semi-sane law
 
I wholly disagree, Protecting other occupants who have no other way to protect themselves (i.e. kids, the severely disabled etc) from the primary occupier's criminal stupidity is something that needs to be sorted out. Instead seemingly some would rather the problem stay ignored, either electrics is a professional trade and takes on the responsibility of having the power cut off when things are not safe.
The solution to cowboys cutting power off could be as simple as an intermediary, disagree with the power being shut off, someone sent out, if they agree the fault is serious enough to warrant the shut off, it stays shut off, customer (potentially) gets a bill for the inspection, if its a cowboy seeking work, then power goes back on and they get stick / prosecuted.
I think taking it through insurance is the best solution (inspection every 5 to 10 years (unless wiring aged and in need of modernisation / alterations planned), central database of when the last check was done and any notes made about the installation with digital photos of areas needing attention (if we really want to be watertight)
People wouldn't have it, some cry.....all it takes is a few kids to die in a housefire due to bad electrics and the "think of children brigade" will be looking for a target to blame and if they realise that the gas guys would have shut off the gas, then they will wonder why the spark didn't shut off the power if it was that bad. Alongside the usual sue first think later mentality, using the cover of "ordinary person" who isn't legally expected to know the dangers of electricity, compared with instructed and competent persons, who are expected to understand the dangers and act accordingly.
tbh I see this turning into a right royal mess and bad law unless something is done pre-emptively to try and push for semi-sane law

I know where you are coming from but I disagree....this sort of thing IS the nanny state. There's more than enough of that already.......I can see now armies of arrogant jobsworth little hitlers going round cutting off peoples supply because their install doesnt fit one of the tick boxes on their sheet.....God help us.
 

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