D.I.Y. REWIRE-- A Step By Step Guide.

[telectrix]

1. Remove all heavy furniture from upstairs. Place in Storage.

2. Roll up all upstairs carpets. Ditto.

3. Lift floorboards to enable cable routing (not the ones that the plumber has wrecked, fitting central heating)

4. Move all downstairs furniture to centre of rooms and cover with dust sheets.

5. Cover all ground floor carpets with polythene sheeting.

6. Chase out from ground floor ceiling vertically to every point you require a fitting/accessory.

7. Now that you've realised that you are totally out of your depth, get on the phone to a qualified Sparks.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Well I think we should impose a life ban on Telectrix, not for any reason just so that some of us can catch him up.

 

[Big n Daft]

Sorry to be short and blunt rsmck but I don't agree with what your doing, without formal and proper training (not books) I don't agree with you rewiring your house or anybody else for that matter, its wrong and dangerous and should be outlawed IMHO, Electricians don't sit maybe 15 separate exams over 4-5 years sometimes spending £1000's in course fee's and maybe an Apprenticeship and another £500 on a part p competent persons scheme for nothing you know, annoys me that somebody who can buy a £60 bs7671 and a book of amazon thinks they can rewire a house CORRECTLY

Take heed.
WHEN you get out of your depth, you may not find a sparks and if you do I hope they are very expensive

 

[Dave_]

I do appreciate the risks involved this is why, even as a DIYer, I've spent some time studying the regs alongside the ECA's "Guide to the Wiring Regulations" and conducting the relevant tests (and recording the results)

Conducting the relevant tests - Once the install is completed i assume you are going to get it inspected & tested by a competent spark - as i'm sure your aware the test equipment required (to measure Zs and Pfc for example) is not cheap. A multifunction tester costs at least 500 notes....

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Just wondering if rmsck was thinking about joining our trade (properly)?

 

[rsmck]

Conducting the relevant tests - Once the install is completed i assume you are going to get it inspected & tested by a competent spark - as i'm sure your aware the test equipment required (to measure Zs and Pfc for example) is not cheap. A multifunction tester costs at least 500 notes....

I think my Fluke 1653B will be suitable, it's certainly helped so far

Just wondering if rmsck was thinking about joining our trade (properly)?

The thought had crossed my mind in the past... although for a variety of reasons the more physical bits (crawling about roof / floor voids etc) would become quite tricky through time as I have occasional problems with my back (old injury).. my desk-based job is probably more sensible

That said I spend a lot of time, when not working, clambering about, working at height and moving heavy stuff about in just the way my doc advised I probably shouldn't ... unfortunately I'd miss it too much.

 

[Des 56]

I think my Fluke 1653B will be suitable, it's certainly helped so far

Another one using these popular multi function contraptions

Aim for quality and get yourself some decent individual instruments

 

[rsmck]

Another one using these popular multi function contraptions

Aim for quality and get yourself some decent individual instruments

If I was an electrician... I probably would. I do have a single Kewtech Earth Loop tester that I inherited from someone else... oh and a Megger PAT tester inflicted on me by a former employer... that said it's not too useful for installations and I've no inclination whatsoever to start PAT testing appliances at home

 

[mickys86]

Its all the little things that need to be thought of.
I'll give one example which is where does it specifically say to put grommets in the knockouts of the back boxes?

I guarantee you an electrician would be able to pick out a dangerous mistake that has occurred from your installation.

How do you sleep at night.... Can see you on the next horlicks advert.



 

[DNS1]

Look mate, sorry to burst your bubble but 99% of DIY sparkies ain't got a scoobie what they're doing. Its as simple as that. Sure they may be able to follow a nice wiring diagram but they won't have a clue when it comes to testing, safe zones for a bathroom, cable calcs etc etc. So whilst you may be able to convince your missus that you are saving a few quid - you are mugging yourself off at the same time. If DIY electrics was such an easy thing then it wouldn't be banned in most countries. However enjoy your DIY electrics whilst you can, because it will be banned here soon as well. Part P - Do you know what this is by the way? Is the first step to stopping Mr DIYer.
Sorry mate, but amateur electrics kill.

Sorry mate, but I have to disagree with a lot of that.

Firstly you're talking about "DIY sparkies", well there are a lot out there. There are idiots who couldn't fit a lighting pendant, and people like myself and rsmck, who aren't electricians by trade but are still competent.

I've not yet got my C&G (although they're well in the pipeline), but I've spent countless hours studying the regs. I've got copies of the OSG, Building Regs for Electricians as well as the Holy Bible 7671, all of which I've read inside out. If I don't know something, I look it up. From the tone of his posts, rsmck is similar.

If someone is on here asking for advice, I think it's pretty reasonable to expect that they're not a complete amateur, or "know it all" DIYer. People come here for advice because they want to do things right.

As for "amateur electrics kill", I think what you mean is "amateur electrics have the potential to kill". Seriously, how many stories do you read in the paper about people being electrocuted? My other half is an A+E doctor and has been for several years. She's yet to see someone in for treatment following a domestic electrics incident.

 

[DNS1]

Des 56, are the individual instruments really better than multifunction testers? If they gave different readings, the MFs wouldn't get their calibration certs would they?

 

[rsmck]

Its all the little things that need to be thought of.
I'll give one example which is where does it specifically say to put grommets in the knockouts of the back boxes?

Well that's common sense - when running a cable through something with sharp metal edges. - but in any event as far as I know not a legal requirement (the NICEIC confirm it's not a deficiency in it's own right but the cable sheath must be 'adequately protected from damage')

But in any event.. I would always use them.

I guarantee you an electrician would be able to pick out a dangerous mistake that has occurred from your installation.

I am confident they wouldn't find anything dangerous. There are a few things that aren't quite perfect ( data cables ran near mains, sockets at wrong height (due to pre-existing positions) etc due to limitations of the building.

There is also one small ceiling which has cables above it which have been pulled through that aren't clipped yet, however that will be remedied as soon as the bathroom above it is renovated. I still maintain my new (albeit unclipped) 1.5mm T&E that's properly terminated is safer than the previous VIR rubber cable with the insulation flaking off it that got ripped out

How do you sleep at night...

Very well.

 

[rsmck]

As for "amateur electrics kill", I think what you mean is "amateur electrics have the potential to kill". Seriously, how many stories do you read in the paper about people being electrocuted? My other half is an A+E doctor and has been for several years. She's yet to see someone in for treatment following a domestic electrics incident.

Agreed 100% - loads of things have the potential to kill. I have a friend who's a paramedic and has attended many 100s of road traffic collisions and industrial accidents where there have been fatalities. He's yet to attend where the patient has suffered any form of serious electric shock (he did once attend a DIYer who tried to change a light fitting without isolating it, to treat him for the leg injuries sustained when he fell off the ladder!)

I'm also on good terms with our local fire service - I asked someone a while ago about common causes of fires they attend and "botched electrics" is very rare - old and poorly maintained electrics being far more common but more often than not - kitchen fires, cigarettes, matches, candles...

So yes, amateur electrics (like many things) have the potential to kill but so do cars, cookers, ladders ... All of which are safe and useful tools if used safely.

 

[irn-brue]

i dont know why you joined this forum rsmck u seem to know everything allready.

 

[irn-brue]

maybe i should re-phrase that *think you know everything*

 

[rsmck]

i dont know why you joined this forum rsmck u seem to know everything allready.

maybe i should re-phrase that *think you know everything*

Constructive, thankyou.

I do not claim to know everything, nor do I believe I have ever implied I do. I do find it somewhat amusing that having joined this forum over a year ago your only contribution has to been to attempt to belittle another forum member (badly)

As you yourself have said, this forum is a useful resource, and there have been a lot of very helpful members on here for which I am very grateful of the assistance and advice they have given.

 

[irn-brue]

Fair point i may have misread the situation. You did however appear to me to be a bit of smart Alec with an answer for everything. Maybe i was wrong if so i apologise.

 

[telectrix]

fair play to rsmck, seems to have a good attitude and approach to his rewire. if LABC have been notified and will be inspecting the job, then nobody on this forum can fault for that, as that way, he would be complying with all regulations.

 

[rsmck]

fair play to rsmck, seems to have a good attitude and approach to his rewire.

Thanks, I try.. if I knew everything I wouldn't be here

if LABC have been notified and will be inspecting the job, then nobody on this forum can fault for that, as that way, he would be complying with all regulations.

LABC have been notified (I asked about it at the same time as applying to remove a wall) but have no interest at all as it falls outwith the scope of work which requires a building warrant. Ironically, it would only require a building warrant if I was adding recessed sockets to a party wall!

I had previously rewired my flat - that did need a building warrant and subsequent inspection by LABC.

For the benefit of those south of the border - the following guide produced by SBSA shows what work does/does not require a warrant under the Building (Scotland) Regulations 2004 -
http://www.angus.gov.uk/buildingcontrol/electricalmatrix.pdf

It's very different from your Part P, for now anyway.

 

[telectrix]

sorry, i forgot you were in scotland. obviously part pee does not apply. i have no idea of the building regs. in scotland , so cannot comment further in that respect.

 

[Justin pearson]

rmsck

i have just finished college Got my C&G 2330 level 3 am 17th edition qualified as well as a nVQ level 2. Ive been studying full time for 2 years.

One thing this studying has taught me is that there is so much to it. I am not a sparkie yet i still have a long way to go.

Yes i could run the cables, Wire it up and get everything to work, thats the easy bit.

But would i be 100% confident in my installation. Enough to sleep soundly at night whilst my 4 year old son is in the next room.

Would i wonder if all the tests i carried out had the right readings, would i be confident in the readings i wrote down, If any of the readings were slightly high would i know the reason why or would i be gambling.

After 2 years i wouldnt risk it i have have studied enough to know the dangers, ask the guys they know there stuff, i do.

cheers

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Rsmck: do you know why we clip cables and why we clip them at 250mm centres? Its just that you mentioned in your post near the top of this page that you have left some unclipped above a bathroom? Did you know that a fault current reaches full potential on the first quarter cycle which places serious strain on unclipped cables? Thats why we clip em...........

 

[Des 56]

Des 56, are the individual instruments really better than multifunction testers? If they gave different readings, the MFs wouldn't get their calibration certs would they?

Please dont read too seriously into that post, the occasionall light hearted and stupid comments tend to be a weakness of mine

To answer your post

"Better" ? Of course individual instruments are better
At least in my opinion they are
Different readings,now come on sir,I haven't stated that,----yet

Each to their own I suppose,my reasons are
If for instance the meter devleoped a problem,I dont lose the functions of the other meters,whereas if a multifunction tester develops a problem, you have lost the lot

Setting the instruments up for the various functions is a pain in the backside,beep,beep,change,beep beep,change

When I am testing away from the dist board,there is not that cumbersome contraption to haul around, beep beep

There are downsides to seperate instruments and I will think of one in a moment


OK after musing for a few minutes,I have managed to conclude that, yes,they cost a little extra for callibration and,and,and sorry, thats it

 

[JamesBrownLive]

Rsmck: do you know why we clip cables and why we clip them at 250mm centres? Its just that you mentioned in your post near the top of this page that you have left some unclipped above a bathroom? Did you know that a fault current reaches full potential on the first quarter cycle which places serious strain on unclipped cables? Thats why we clip em...........

It's funny that you mention clipping, because in another thread regarding running cables down the inside of stud walls, it was intimated that the normal course of action is to not clip (well at least not as often as required) because to do so would mean knocking too many holes in the wall??

It always amazes me however, when people have chosen not to clip, not because clipping would be an inordinate amount of work but simply because they could not be bothered. Suspended ceilings seem to be a case in point, as I've come across quite a few where the cable for lighting is simply laid on top :nono:

 

[ruston]

Rsmck. I see you are online. I have to apologize to you and admit that I thought you were the OP to this post. I picked upon the post when your name was next to the subject matter , this is what led me to believe that this was your post.
I can see that you are a person of integrity and that you knowledge is well above that of the average layman and would not have contributed in the manner that I did.

 

[IQ Electrical]

Rsmck. I see you are online. I have to apologize to you and admit that I thought you were the OP to this post. I picked upon the post when your name was next to the subject matter , this is what led me to believe that this was your post.
I can see that you are a person of integrity and that you knowledge is well above that of the average layman and would not have contributed in the manner that I did.

Well said.....

 

[GLENNSPARK]

We come across stuff like you mention JB all the time mate, just bone-idle install practice......plain n simple........

 

[DNS1]

Anyone mind if I change the subject back to cable clips?

No, good

How long have the regs for clipping cables been around? I only ask because NONE of the cables in my place are clipped at all.

 

[ruston]

Anyone mind if I change the subject back to cable clips?

No, good

How long have the regs for clipping cables been around? I only ask because NONE of the cables in my place are clipped at all.

Whats a cable clip?:smile5:

 

[rsmck]

GLENNSPARK,

The unclipped cables will be clipped as soon as the bathroom is redone (soon!) at present they are in a ceiling void, between low powered downlights and protected by an RCD.

As far as I'm aware there is no specific regulation to stipulate how often cables are clipped other than they should be supported along their length and to prevent stress to the cable and terminations.

There was a table in the 16th Edition of minimum separation distances, but as far as I can see this is no longer in the 17th.

The regs require where cables are not supported continuously due to the method of installations they shall be supported by suitable means at appropriate intervals in such a manner that the cables do not suffer damage by their own weight (522.8.4)

Considering the (temporarily) unclipped span of 1.5mm cable is around 1.2m at it's longest and there is no risk of movement to the cables and no appreciable stress on the terminations or the cable from its own weight over such a short distance I consider it to be safe.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Dear rsmck, Where did i admit to not clipping cables?

 

[rsmck]

Dear rsmck, Where did i admit to not clipping cables?

I am going on what was said by JamesBrownLive

If you did not suggest this in another thread, then obviously the rest of that is irrelevant, please accept my apologies.

 

[rsmck]

Whats a cable clip?:smile5:

Well in the installation I removed it ranged from a small length of rubber cable cut and stapled across the cable to hold it in place to a large nail put straight through the centre of them(!)

Generally I'd use the little plastic ones, much easier and less likely to fry whoever lifts the floorboards and finds the nail

[I almost feel I have to add a disclaimer that this is intentionally written with a tone of sarcasm/poor attempt at humour as opposed to suggesting for a minute I was nailing through the cables - but it is genuinely what I found in this place!]

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Sometimes you will come across small lengths if cable ends used with 2 clouts (a bit like a staple) to fix wiring but its just easier and better to get a box or 3 of tower clips.........

 

[ruston]

Well in the installation I removed it ranged from a small length of rubber cable cut and stapled across the cable to hold it in place to a large nail put straight through the centre of them(!)

Generally I'd use the little plastic ones, much easier and less likely to fry whoever lifts the floorboards and finds the nail

[I almost feel I have to add a disclaimer that this is intentionally written with a tone of sarcasm/poor attempt at humour as opposed to suggesting for a minute I was nailing through the cables - but it is genuinely what I found in this place!]

Ah , I believe I've seen the odd one or two now you come to mention it.
Edit to add -you have a real treat to look forward to when you pull your first kitchen out,:yes::yes:

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I am sure jamesbrown wasnt refering to a thread i had posted regarding vertical runs and clipping but just a thread he had seen in regards to the subject....why dont you ask him?

 

[rsmck]

Sometimes you will come across small lengths if cable ends used with 2 clouts (a bit like a staple) to fix wiring but its just easier and better to get a box or 3 of tower clips.........

I think the two cables I found with a nail straight through them were probably the most surprising... they'd probably been there since the original installation in 1953 and did seem to be working when we moved in and before we discovered it (!)

 

[rsmck]

I am sure jamesbrown wasnt refering to a thread i had posted regarding vertical runs and clipping but just a thread he had seen in regards to the subject....why dont you ask him?

I have amended my earlier post, apologies for the misunderstanding.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

No probs mate...Thing with me is i hate seeing s**t work (not implying anything towards your work) But crap we come across when out working:real yul brynner stuff some of it......take a look through the archives on this forum....plenty of pictorial evidence to choose from (it would be funny if it wernt damn right dangerous some of it)...........

 

[rsmck]

No probs mate...Thing with me is i hate seeing s**t work (not implying anything towards your work) But crap we come across when out working:real yul brynner stuff some of it......take a look through the archives on this forum....plenty of pictorial evidence to choose from (it would be funny if it wernt damn right dangerous some of it)...........

That's true in every line of work sadly... Although not my full time job I spend a lot of time working as a theatre/events tech there's a group on facebook entitled "Dodgy Technicians" and "Lighting Wall of Shame" which shows the standard of some of the things - many electrical - you see in that industry too

I can only imagine some of the stuff you see (i've looked through some of the threads!) likewise some of the things I've come across in venues - lights with no safeties, truss deflecting by stupid amounts due to the weight, socapex (an 18 core cable carrying 6 lives, 6 neutrals on a multipin connector often on different phases) wrapped around a chain for a chain hoist, a kettle with the plug cut off and the bare ends inserted into a 63A 3ø outlet on a generator....

It's amazing what people will try and do - or will do without even thinking about it

(Almost as amazing as how off-topic this has gotten )

 

[GLENNSPARK]

We went to a factory one time where the director was gettin in a flap as a guy he had blown out was threatening to report him. When we got in there we found loads of 2 cores just hanging down without any termination or isolation (all energised stuff) and a 3 phase panel with loads of blanks missing plus a 3 phase starter with no front on it! Loads of other code 1s in there n all: we were there ages man just recording s**t.........the only motive for this kn**head to get it sorted was the elf n safety guys coming in and padlocking the lot after the sacked one had carried out his threat...unbelievable.........