Dam those hidden junction boxes

[Octopus]

Been out to a call out this afternoon to a house with most of their downstairs lights not working. Owners say they "failed" at the same time that a bulb blew.

So I've looked at each lighting point in turn and my conclusion is that above, (or there abouts) each and every light, is a hidden junction box ..... Why oh why, do people think they can have junction boxes "sealed" in the space between the ceiling and the floorboards above!!

Just to top off the day, I found that most of the circuits weren't labelled, both of the lighting circuits had 2 cables connected and the neutrals didn't match the MCBs in any way, now did any of the new circuits added when an extension was done about 3 years ago have ANY labelling.

Plus I had to go back later as they discovered their heating wasn't working and it turned out that the heating controller (which is upstairs) is spurred off the the offending downstairs lighting circuit AND the real pain is that the plumber has fitted the new tank almost directly in front of the fused spur for the c/heating controller. Mindful they have a young child they now have c/heating operating courtesy of an extension lead and a plug!

Going back Monday to lift carpets and boards!!

Rant over!!

 

[fuzzydunlop]

The Dado / Coving is'nt the hard bit, but the 50 quid a roll wallpaper ? don't think i'd want to be responsible for messing that up either at the end of the day mate, you don't have to upgrade it to the 17th as long as it's safe & fit for purpose. There's 1000's of properties out there that are not up to 17th but still safe. All you can do is your best for your mum.

Cheers, I know all about the 17th bit as my tutor hammered it home for my 2330 lvl3 practical (3 people failed for giving a code 1 for not to 17th standards).

But that's all for another thread as I've got a bit of a rant lined up about general standards/requirements for Part P etc etc..

 

[Engineer54]

Is Any wallpaper worth 50 quid??? ....Besides, what's more important a bit of wallpaper or Mum?? lol!!

 

[fuzzydunlop]

Is Any wallpaper worth 50 quid??? ....Besides, what's more important a bit of wallpaper or Mum?? lol!!

Wallpaper, obviously.

According to my Mum

 

[Specialist]

Cheers, I know all about the 17th bit as my tutor hammered it home for my 2330 lvl3 practical (3 people failed for giving a code 1 for not to 17th standards).

But that's all for another thread as I've got a bit of a rant lined up about general standards/requirements for Part P etc etc..

No probs mate, good luck with it & if you want to bounce some ideas off of someone then just let me know. As for Part P, it's too late at night for starting me off on that 1 Lol.

 

[Geordie Spark]

well that "joint box house" as we have christened it....it wasn`t just the lighting........every final in that place was loaded up with joint boxes...some with covers on...others without.........one of the best ones we saw was this place where the guy had jointed onto vir......and just gone from point to point....tocreate the illusion of a ring.....no earth at any of the points on it..lolffs......

That's exactly how the first house I bought was done !!

When I viewed it, I was told it had been rewired & was shown a nice new CU in a cupboard under the stairs with nice new bits of T&E running from it up into the ceiling void.

I was shown nice new 13A sockets on the walls, & nice new ceiling roses on the ceilings, so I bought it.

When I moved in, one of the rooms had 2 cores - one black & the other green sticking through the ceiling where a light should be. On further investigation, I found this to be a lump of 3 core rubber flex with the red core cut off.

Even further investigation revealed this to be twisted onto the ends of some well shot VIR which in turn was twisted onto the ends of the nice new T&E that I had been shown. The twisted joints were insulated with that old fashioned cloth / tar sort of tape that doesn't appear to be used nowadays - thankfully.

The same applied to the new sockets - none of which were earthed.

That was back in 1975 & was my very first complete rewiring job !!

 

[Richard]

We took over a job a few years back, where the first bloke had been kicked off. What he had done, beleive it or not, was just left tails in the wall. So for example for a two way light switch he had just left a meter or so of three core above the drop, which he planned to put a junction box on AFTER everything had been skimmed. Night mare!! That was for every single drop in a pretty high spec extention!

 

[fuzzydunlop]

Update on my Mum's electrics, opened the hatch and was showered with a load of thick black dust, climbed into the loft after coughing my guts up/recovering vision to discover all the roof lining (what ever it was used in the 30's) has disintegrated leaving a thick black layer of crap over everything

So i didn't even bother (have the inclination) to locate the junction boxes etc. So you'll all be pleased to hear her £50 wallpaper is safe for now

On another note had my first "call out" today to my Dad's house as his lights have been tripping intermittently for the last couple of weeks, got there and everything was on so asked him what works he had done recently (reading the forums for that thumbsup) to which he replied new down lights in kitchen and extractor, so tested the board all fine, so linked out the light circuit and went testing had continuity (180ohms on l/e) but couldn't trace the fault.

By this time it was getting dark so put the line back into the mcb switched on and main switch tripped, main switch back on tried a different sequence ring main tripped the main switch (old wylex dial type rcd) , main switch on another different sequence on for a bit boiler mcb trips the rcd

So try to test the ring mains (4 different circuits on the ground floor, i don't have a wander lead and everything trips in seconds), find four inch screws in the socket cover pull the socket and it moves about a centimetre due to **** cabelling, great, so bin that idea

By this point its dark I've discovered my nephew has knackered my 5 function 900 lumens torch (its cool for kids flashes/pulses etc etc), I've knackered the bulb on my maglite switching it from standing to putting the top cover on :madass: so I'm left with a poxy 1aaa torch that he has in the house. So thought i'd check the forums or internet search at which point I remembered he lives in the middle of the countryside and there's no phone signal nor can I get wifi as his electric keeps tripping

Drive down the road and phone a friend (qualified spark) to describe the fault (should also mention functional test doesn't work on the RCD) and we come to agreement that the RCD may be kaput, manage to get hold of his friend who did the down lights (qualified spark) who described the electrics as a mess and how the down lights took forever to do due the general state of the electrics and he thinks it may be the rcd as well or my dad hasn't fessed up to something

Go back and try the extremes again, find a dual dimmer switch behind a curtain and get from my Dad oh yeh I changed that when I moved in took me ages to do as I couldn't remember how the wires went in, open switch pull the cables and the common from the bottom to top of switch is connected by a single strand and the screw has been battered strip an re terminate,switch on main switch flick on MCB's and it stays on

Was a bit hairy at moments (when I nearly told him to book into a hotel till I got a new CU) but enjoyed it and learnt a lot of lessons. Am still trying to work out in my head the sequence/readings as I know I had it right in the area the fault was in, just didn't see the dimmer switch

 

[Octopus]

Update on my job!!!

Lifted the carpet and some boards on the landing - found 1 x broken junction box and 1 x choc block wrapped in a lot of tape. The 2 way cabling running up the original metal conduit - 1 cable have its 3 cores running seperately, no earth, no outer cover!

At least I located the feed and its the original 1950 2 core running from the CU via a couple of other points. Still nothing conclusive - next step will be to lift the carpet and boards in the bedroom. Happy days

 

[Lucas]

''That's why I argue to the death the best way is to take everything to the switch.''

Yeah!! .....Fill that box up instead!!! Geezus!!

With what? An extra two cables? Damnit, loop in loop out at a switch box, how on earth will I ever dress this in?

 

[Jarion]

Just wondering if there are any products on the market that are 'approved' or suitable of join and forget, so these issues do not arise. Thanks, Mark

 

[Doomed]

I will occasionally use o joint box above a light fitting, but ONLY when wiring one of those horrid fancy light fittings with no space for any wires.

 

[Octopus]

Just wondering if there are any products on the market that are 'approved' or suitable of join and forget, so these issues do not arise. Thanks, Mark

Google Hager or Ashley J803 and J804

 

[ayjay]

theres nothing wrong with using an rb4 plastic box/enclosure and a nylon connector strip within for terminating lighting cables

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Been out to a call out this afternoon to a house with most of their downstairs lights not working. Owners say they "failed" at the same time that a bulb blew.

So I've looked at each lighting point in turn and my conclusion is that above, (or there abouts) each and every light, is a hidden junction box ..... Why oh why, do people think they can have junction boxes "sealed" in the space between the ceiling and the floorboards above!!

Just to top off the day, I found that most of the circuits weren't labelled, both of the lighting circuits had 2 cables connected and the neutrals didn't match the MCBs in any way, now did any of the new circuits added when an extension was done about 3 years ago have ANY labelling.

Plus I had to go back later as they discovered their heating wasn't working and it turned out that the heating controller (which is upstairs) is spurred off the the offending downstairs lighting circuit AND the real pain is that the plumber has fitted the new tank almost directly in front of the fused spur for the c/heating controller. Mindful they have a young child they now have c/heating operating courtesy of an extension lead and a plug!

Going back Monday to lift carpets and boards!!

Rant over!!

yeah...well for a start the s`1oh it all failed when a lamp went` is complete baba...

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Cheers, I know all about the 17th bit as my tutor hammered it home for my 2330 lvl3 practical (3 people failed for giving a code 1 for not to 17th standards).

But that's all for another thread as I've got a bit of a rant lined up about general standards/requirements for Part P etc etc..

but not the guy your callin here fuzzy....get a grip rite now.....or i``l come after you in here.....