DC 12V ~ UNUSED ELEC generated by Alternator OR Solar Panels: DISAPATATED OK?

[srands]

My point here is, surely if generated ELECTRIC (DC 12 Volts: Solar Power or Alternator) has no immediate STORAGE (Car/Leisure BATTERY), then surely this generated ELECTRIC is DISAPATATED to nothing, or some HEAT.

Either:
~ The unused electrical charge passes as HEAT (That is the electrical energy is converted to physical energy, that is HEAT), through the lead at an atomic level working through the cable like a mesh membrane in a morpheus style way, as it is NOT stored for ever for eventual use (Other then normal use, when electrical current drawn from SUPPLY to LOAD).
~ Or perhaps the molecular parts of charged electric current, electron particles of electricity, anions (-) and cations (+), if recently generated electric particles are NOT immediately used then the electric current (Electrical energy), those particles becomes "LESS busy" or "LESS involved" with each other, hence I presume the continually generated electric current/charge WITHOUT any storage, is dissipated WITHOUT being used, or WITHOUT any unnecessary noticeable build up (Hence no leads or parts melt through over heating).

Since ELEC is drawn from SUPPLY by the LOAD, then ELECTRICAL CURRENT does NOT travel unnecessarily through the circuits, and connected leads of appliances (Hence because of this appliance leads ONLY have to be greater then the thickness of the AMPS used by the specific appliances).

To make this point more concisely:

SOLAR PANELs: GENERATED ELEC


SOLAR POLAR PANELS -> SOCKET WIRE -> CAR/LEISURE BATTERY (If just before the car battery, there is a FUSED SWITCHED SPUR, and the power is turned OFF, since the generated electricity from the solar panels has no storage, is the unused electricity just DISAPATATED without undesirable noticeable heat from the lead/socket wire?
I GUESS SO.

CAR ALTERNATOR: GENERATED ELEC


CAR ALTERNATOR -> CAR BATTERY (If just before the car battery, there is a FUSED SWITCH, and the power is turned OFF, since the generated electricity from the alternator has NO storage (CAR BATTERY), is the unused electricity just DISAPATATED without undesirable noticeable heat from the output lead (etc) of the alternator?
I GUESS SO.

 

[Des 56]

Current "can" flow where there is a potential difference

The word potential is very relevant to the whole of your post

 

[srands]

My thread is more of a statement, then it is a question, that is ELEC does what it does, discuss it as much as you want:
NEGATIVE
POSITIVE
SUPPLY
LOAD

It is that simple, other descriptions are just to make electrical circuits and fuseboxes sound more complicated then they really are.

In DC 12V, ELECTRIC current is drawn from SUPPLY by the LOAD (The Potential of using a motor or part in DC 12v, obviously in AC 240V houses & businesses draw an average LOAD from the SUPPLY, via underground/overground power lines, from the nearest POWER STATION).

When the ELECTRIC current is unused, the current is NOT stored for later use, unless there is STORAGE.
ELEC STORAGE description:
~ CAR BATTERY DC 12V.
Or in
~ AC 240V I guess you could describe the National Elec Grid as storage, but for examples sake it is a long cable, at one end there is SUPPLY (Continuously generated elec) and at the other end is LOAD (Houses & businesses using elec), using the electric current.

UNUSED ELECTRIC does NOT cause a hazard. It is a switch turned to OFF.

Perhaps you are suggesting it is dangerous to turn OFF appliances, lights, motors, cars, etc?
Well with DC 12V, the only danger is that your car battery, will NOT hold it's charge forever.
Well with AC 240V, the power stations are never going to be switched off! You save using elec by turning/switching off appliances, lights, etc.

Many Thanks though for your less then serious implied suggestion (i.e. There is more to it then there really is, no there isn't!). Fascinating conversations going round in ever going circles, I'm a bit busy for that thanks.

 

[Des 56]

Quote
Many Thanks though for your less then serious implied suggestion (i.e. There is more to it then there really is, no there isn't!). Fascinating conversations going round in ever going circles, I'm a bit busy for that thanks.

Well I an honestly baffled by your reply
Quite a lot of what you posted bears no relation, in my opinion, to electrical priciples that have been around for ages

What is the point you are trying to make,that somehow because electricity is not used,then it is somehow in existence but not used and wasted,if so there is a lot of theory to contend with before discussing the subject

 

[srands]

Just stating the obvious, something for momentary reflection (Is that OK. To be more exact knowledge is knowledge, once it is knowledge, and finding out how something works, isn't as easy as it should be, there is so much made up nonsense some plausible, and many not so plausible, these are just to over complicate, perhaps because electrons, the particles of electricity, anions (-) and cations (+), are unseen, that is not visible with our own eyes, so believe in something you can't touch, you can't see or you can't hear):

switching OFF (A supplying circuit) doesn't cause unnecessary build up of electricity.
switching ON (A supplying circuit) for prolonged periods may overcharge car battery (Car or solar power systems, and for AC 240V prolonged is just consumption of electric).

That is:
CAR ALTERNATOR: You wouldn't leave your car on idle on purpose, unless in traffic, or to recharge a partially charged battery. Obviously just driving recharges your car battery adequately, so next time you come to start your car, it has sufficient charge (DC 12V).

SOLAR POWER SYSTEM: Once a system has reached maximum charge (12v to 14v), then the SUPPLY would be manually switched off (Or Charge Regulator), to prevent the batteries being overcharged.

AC 240V SUPPLY: Power Stations aren't going to explode from OVER GENERATION.


But what is dangerous is ELECTRICAL SYSTEMS?:
~ Inadequate cable/socket wire/lead diameter, causing at the least melted leads
~ Resistance, when negative and positive touch UNINSULATED, at least blown fuse, melted lead, possibly broken appliance. More hazardous the larger the AMPAGE.
~ Appliances in use without outer casing, potentially dangerous (i.e. If a metal object, such as watch contacts between negative & positive circuit, hence instant resistance, a really bad thing!)

 

[JLD]

I'm struggling to understand the point you are asking or trying to make. Am I alone in this?

 

[truckster]

Confused.com

 

[Dunc]

I'm struggling to understand the point you are asking or trying to make. Am I alone in this?

No, but i couldn't even be bothered to read it if i'm being brutally honest.

 

[srands]

Well the point being from a generation (Power Station, Car Alternator or Solar Power System) perspective, some generated electricity maybe wasted energy, to meet an approximate average consumptions of all houses & businesses supplied to.

For example: A Solar Power system fully charged, but solar power system still generating electricity, but since charge to batteries is turned OFF, HENCE (The important bit!) all electricity generated is disapatated until the power switch to the batteries is turned ON again! But this unused electric (Wasted energy?) doesn't present any hazard, as LOAD (Eg. Battery) only draws current from SUPPLY (Eg. Solar Panels).
Or an analogy, in other words water in a pipe won't break the water pipe if completely full, and tap off.

Hence elec does what it does, obviously there are some ambiguities such as:
~ RING circuit ampages (See my RING AMP xl spreadsheet using Kirchoff method)
i.e. NOT half amp load as some presume,
~ MAX AMP load per MCB and/or RCD, per hour average (Presumed of real/fictional lights/appliances)

Anyway excuse me I have a few toilet rolls to whizz away, just to pass the time.

 

[Knobhead]

srands, please go and find a rock and crawl under it.

I’ll be along later to lift the rock and pour salt on your tail :angel_smile:

 

[Des 56]

I find your posts are more or less thought trains rather than a stated subject matter,because you do not state what it is you are opening for discussion and procede to ask questions of yourself,then answer that question with an answer that you have already agreed on with yourself

Because you do not explain the proposed discussion I can only second guess your wishes

Are you making contention, that energy used to create a charged particle, is lost/wasted, unless it is stored or used, and that the energy used in the process dissipates, causing wasteage that has to be replaced ?

If so,then unfortunately I am a bog standard electrician on an electricians forum and matters of these, which are in depth studies of the 4 fundamental forces,the strong and weak nuclear forces,gravity and electromagnetism,are better discussed with a group who have the mental capacity to understand a limited amount on those subjects,I and others here do not have the capability or mental capacity to do so

An electricians use and understanding of the theories behind electromagnetism and particle physics are very limited and parts relevant to the carrying out of electrical work are sometimes generally understood,
The quote below is about as in depth that I and others may be able to grasp
Any deeper discussion or attempt at understanding and you are flogging a dead horse mate

The electric charge of a macroscopic object is the sum of the electric charges of the particles that make it up. This charge is often small, because matter is made of atoms, and atoms typically have equal numbers of protons and electrons, in which case their charges cancel out, yielding a net charge of zero, thus making the atom neutral.
An ion is an atom (or group of atoms) that has lost one or more electrons, giving it a net positive charge (cation), or that has gained one or more electrons, giving it a net negative charge (anion). Monatomic ions are formed from single atoms, while polyatomic ions are formed from two or more atoms that have been bonded together, in each case yielding an ion with a positive or negative net charge.
During the formation of macroscopic objects, usually the constituent atoms and ions will combine in such a manner that they form structures composed of neutral ionic compounds electrically bound to neutral atoms. Thus macroscopic objects tend toward being neutral overall, but macroscopic objects are rarely perfectly net neutral.
There are times when macroscopic objects contain ions distributed throughout the material, rigidly bound in place, giving an overall net positive or negative charge to the object. Also, macroscopic objects made of conductive elements, can more or less easily (depending on the element) take on or give off electrons, and then maintain a net negative or positive charge indefinitely.END This is now the full extent of the bog standard sparks capabilities to understand eletromagnetism

 

[topquark]

Radish catapillar! What is an electron anyway :icon_bs:

 

[robsparky1975]

Someone has not had some medicine today i think

 

[srands]

Electricians and their never ending "ridiculous crusade" of which MM socket wire to use, and what to do if their reel/length isn't long enough, well some block connectors and a junction box, perhaps.

Well wouldn't want the ampage load of the appliance greater THEN the ampage of the cable/lead, heaven forbid.

Cheers for the all implied lack of coincidence nonsense (I wouldn't bring that up too often though), anyway here is something alot more productive:

ELEC GAS WATER autocalc: 1st tab, scroll down

FUSEBOX MCB autocalc: 3rd & 4th tab

RING AMP autocalc: 1st tab

MPG autocalc

METRIC autocalc

Cheers

[email protected]

www.srands.co.uk


Aw hey the last comment made by nobody I know, heck that was rude, why don't you do something more productive....... I think you're referring to the earth continuity nonsense. i.e. Earth=soil=dirt, To summarize this more concisely: Dead & Buried (The business of). Or in other words negative and positive in AC 240V are known as LIVE & NEUTRAL, i.e live or dead, aka life & death, it isn't a coincidence, hence when you're dead, they bury you in soil, aka Earth Continuity, or can cremate you, hence Resistance! Well anyway how is my Dad? Everybody wants him, well he's busy organising himself, and gradually making himself round many popular fashion stores (You know the popular shops), as we speak probably.

 

[ipf]

DISAPATATED?......Dissipated, Delapidated or Decapitated ?