Differing advice on FIT when adding more panels.

[dic2dic2]

Hi
I am not an electrician but a solar enthusiast. I need some help before I invest more.-Please

On Jan 10th 2011 I had installed 3.8 KW system installed and therefore receive 43 p a KW

I would like to add 2 kw on another roof--same postal address.

Some electricity suppliers say the 43p continues and the new bit will get 43 or 21 depending on the government ruling.

My supplier -EDF say it is an add on and therefore over 4 KW and FIT drops immediately to 38 pence/ KW OR if the government win the appeal down to 16.8 pence.

Now 38p x 5.8 kw is fine --43 x 5.8 kw ongoing better--43 x 3.8kw and 21 x 2w acceptable --but 16.8 x 5.8 dire.

I hope my posting makes sense--I am sure I am not the only one in a stew.

Thanks

Dick

 

[Gavin A]

edf are right, but you're interpreting them wrong. The existing system will be unaffected, but the it is taken into account when calculating which fit band the second system should be placed into. ie your 3.8kWp system will get 43.3p, your new system 16.8p unless you move quick and the court are nice to us.

eta - this is pretty much definitive btw as I just took advice from Ofgem on precisely this subject.

 

[dansk]

So if its on the same phase do you need G59?

 

[dic2dic2]

That would be fine thanks --best wishes
DD

 

[Gavin A]

So if its on the same phase do you need G59?

G83/1 stage 2, but yes it needs advance permission from the DNO, so actually isn't going to be happening this side of 3rd March unless it's sunday all month.

 

[dic2dic2]

Gavin does that mean that at the original install by installer should have made a DNO application for 3.8kw?

(This is actually a South East 2.66 on one SMA inverter and 1.140 on the SW roof with a smaller Schuco.

It has done pretty well -considering shading from next doors obscene extension we got 3500kw in Essex last year.

Should I leave well alone? At 43 p plus inflation?_ I could add one more Schuco 190 very cheaply--making 3.9 KW --if so will my FIT go down !!!

Thanks

DD

 

[Gavin A]

presuming the figures you give are for the rating of the PV array, it should be no problem as it shouldn't output over 16amps AC due to the arrays peaking at different times, and inverter losses... theoretically. I'd be interested to know what the actual peak output you've seen is though.

 

[dic2dic2]

If 3.8 ststem has 15% loss thats about 3.2 ish so divided by 240 makes just over 13 amps--

Do you then think that 5.8 kw will break the limit !!

Ty again

D

 

[Worcester]

Really need TedM here to correct me, however upgrades (of any size) were caught by the review on upgrade to large systems last September / October where people built a smaller system before August 1 and then quickly enlarged it.

12 months is an absolutley critical timescale...

Here's the words:

Under this proposal, if Ofgem received notification that an extension to an accredited FIT installation had been commissioned within 12 months of the original installation, the original installation and the extension would continue to be considered as a single installation. That installation would then be eligible under Standard Condition 33 for the relevant tariff at the rate applying at the time when the extension was commissioned, rather than at the rate which applied when the original installation was notified or commissioned. The eligibility period for the extended installation (i.e. the maximum period during which FIT payments may be made for the installation) would be reduced to take account of the period for which the original part of the installation had already been eligible for FIT payments, as is currently the case in practice where an extension is made within 12 months.

Under the proposal, Article 15 of the Feed-in Tariffs (Specified Maximum Capacity and Functions) Order 2010 (as amended) would be amended as follows:
Accreditation of extensions to accredited FIT installations
15.—(1) This article applies where the Authority receives notice from a FIT licensee that an accredited FIT installation has been extended.
(2) Paragraph (3) applies where—
(a) the accredited FIT installation is extended by increasing its capacity to generate electricity using the same eligible low-carbon energy source for which it is accredited; and
(b) the extension was commissioned on or before the first anniversary of the confirmation eligibility
(3) Where this paragraph applies— date of the existing accredited FIT installation.
(a) the Authority must—
(i) subject to sub-paragraph (b), treat the extension as if it were part of the original eligible installation treat the extended installation as a new eligible installation
(ii) decide whether or not to accredit the extended installation in accordance with Part 3; and for the purposes of accreditation;
(b) where the Authority decides not to accredit the extended installation, the Authority must treat the notice as a notice to which article 21 applies.
(3A) Where the Authority decides to accredit an extended installation under paragraph (3)—
(a) the eligibility date of the extended installation is the date on which the extension was commissioned; and
(b) the eligibility period for the extended installation is the period set out in the table at Annex 1 of Schedule A to Standard Licence Condition 33, reduced by the period between—
(i) the eligibility date of the original accredited FIT installation; and
(ii) the eligibility date of the extended installation.
(3B) In paragraph (3A)(b), “eligibility period” means the maximum period during which a FIT generator may receive FIT payments for an extended installation.
(4) Paragraph (5) applies where—
(a) the accredited FIT installation is extended by increasing its capacity to generate electricity using the same eligible low-carbon energy source for which it is accredited; and
(b) the extension was commissioned after the first anniversary of the date on which the accredited FIT installation was commissioned eligibility date of the existing accredited FIT installation
(5) Where this paragraph applies, the Authority must— .
(a) treat the extension as a separate eligible installation;
(b) decide whether or not to accredit the extension in accordance with Part 3; and
(c) where it decides to accredit the extension, assign the extension a separate tariff code based on the aggregate total installed capacity of both the extension and the existing accredited FIT installation.
(6) Paragraph (7) applies where the accredited FIT installation was extended by increasing its capacity to generate electricity using a different eligible low-carbon energy source to that for which it is accredited.
(7) Where this paragraph applies, the Authority must—
(a) treat the extension as a separate eligible installation; and
(b) decide whether or not to accredit the extension in accordance with Part 3.

So if it's more than twelve months, the original rules should apply:

What are the rules on extensions?
7. When the FITs scheme was developed, it was recognised that there were likely to be instances where generators would increase the size of their installation over time. For example, they might have installed one wind turbine in year 1 of the FITs scheme and then sought to install another after some time on the same site, increasing the total capacity incrementally over a number of years. Where modifications are made to an accredited FITs installation that increase its capacity using the same technology type, this is described as an “extension”. The legislation underpinning the FITs scheme, specifically Articles 15 and 16 of the Feed-in Tariffs (Specified Maximum Capacity and Functions) Order 2010 (as amended) (“the FITs Order”), sets out the rules for accrediting such extensions.
8. In order to distinguish between installations that are genuinely extended over an appropriate period of time and those that are artificially staged to take advantage of tariff bands, the current extensions rules treat installations differently depending on how long after the original installation the extension takes place. Under the current rules there are two possible scenarios:-
(i) If an extension is commissioned within 12 months of the original installation’s confirmation date, Ofgem is required to re-assess the original installation and the extension for accreditation on the basis that the capacity of the extension will be combined with that of the original installation. Ofgem’s supplier guidance explains that, in these cases,
“The combined installation will then be treated as having a new Total Installed Capacity, and if applicable, new Tariff Code and Tariff Rate. However, the new installation will have the same Eligibility Date as the original Installation. If the new total TIC moves the combined Installation into a new Tariff Code, the whole Installation will receive the lower Tariff Rate from the date on which the Extension commissioned.”4
(ii) If an extension takes place more than 12 months after confirmation in the Central FITs Register, the extension will be treated as a separate installation alongside the original installation. Ofgem’s supplier guidance explains that, in these cases,
“The original installation will retain its Tariff Code and Eligibility Period, but the subsequent extension will be given a separate Tariff Code and have a different Eligibility Period. However, they will share the same entry and Unique FIT ID on the Central FIT Register, as they will be one combined Eligible Installation.”5
9. These provisions also ensure that extensions do not result in installations with a total installed capacity of more than 5MW being supported for FITs.

 

[mdovey]

That was in the original consultation - due to concerns raised in that consultation, DECC's response to the consultation was

"33. However, to address concerns raised in the consultation, we have decided to implement a
modified version of the amendments proposed in the consultation document. From the date
of commencement of the order, an extension to an installation which occurs within 12
months of the eligibility date of the original installation will be subject to the same rules as
those applying to an extension which occurs more than 12 months after the eligibility date of
the original installation."

http://www.decc.gov.uk/assets/decc/...nst/2845-govt-response-cons-treatment-ext.pdf

 

[dic2dic2]

Thanks. I am not too fussed as it seems I will get 38 at worst and 43 at best if I interpret your link correctly. Edf will no commit themselves. I am going up to 5.8 in total and doing a DNO in retrospect. Will post outcome in due course. Dd

 

[Gavin A]

What's your plan if they say no to the increased capacity after you've already installed it?

eta and worst case is 16.8p. It could still happen.

 

[dic2dic2]

Remove and put on daughters house which even at 21 will help them a lot and cost a grand. It's a risk I grant you.

 

[Gary K]

Remove and put on daughters house which even at 21 will help them a lot and cost a grand. It's a risk I grant you.

Not sure moved panels are valid for FIT payments.

 

[TedM]

Moved (new or used) panels are ineligible for FiTs if they have previously formed part of a FiT registered system.

(Gordon, Gavin has already answered the op correctly. 12 months no longer applies for extensions.)