Dimplex Quantum QM150 Storage Heater Off-Peak Supply Wiring Help

[davesparks]

Ahh - didn't realise the 20A DP switch can't be connected to a ring main, but thinking about it now it kind of makes sense.

The installer obviously doesn't know this however, as they have taken Dimplex's advice as being (in simple terms): where the plug was plugged in via a timer, remove the plug socket, replace with a 20A DP switch, and connect the off-peak element to the new switch.

Then your installer clearly is not an electrician! I would suggest reporting them to trading standards and insisting that they (the installer) pay for an electrician to do the job properly.

 

[bigp26]

So who decided not to install an E7 circuit? I bet that wasn't Dimplex!

The decision not to install the E7 (or E10 circuit in my case) was made by the installer. I asked for the installer to come and survey before I parted with any money, as I wanted to understand the route that the new wire going from one end of the flat to the other would take (and if it could be run through the walls).

The installer said that due to studs in the wall as well as the distance, they wouldn't be able to hide the wire in the wall, but would hide it with trunking. He then went on to suggest what I thought at the time was an ingenious idea, and simply connect the heater via a 3 pin plug into an electronic timer, into one of the existing electricity sockets.

Thanks again!

 

[davesparks]

The decision not to install the E7 (or E10 circuit in my case) was made by the installer. I asked for the installer to come and survey before I parted with any money, as I wanted to understand the route that the new wire going from one end of the flat to the other would take (and if it could be run through the walls).

The installer said that due to studs in the wall as well as the distance, they wouldn't be able to hide the wire in the wall, but would hide it with trunking. He then went on to suggest what I thought at the time was an ingenious idea, and simply connect the heater via a 3 pin plug into an electronic timer, into one of the existing electricity sockets.

Thanks again!

Presumably you don't have a loft above or floorboards then if they can't run the cable through building voids?

 

[bigp26]

Presumably you don't have a loft above or floorboards then if they can't run the cable through building voids?

Hi Dave - unfortunately no loft or floorboards I'm afraid!

 

[bigp26]

Hi All,


Many thanks for all of your help so far. I thought I would post an update considering the installer returned on Tuesday.


p.s. I appreciate that some of the points in my update below may already mention things that you have all kindly advised about already, so I apologise in advance for repetition. I am starting to understand the basics, however am struggling with the exam question of “is it safe or not”?


Since the problem occurred, I have been in frequent email contact with the installer. The installer has also reached out to Dimplex, who have said it would be fine to install the off-peak element of the heater onto a ring main with the usual 32A breaker using a 20A double pole isolator before a 16A timer, assuming that loading, installation, grouping, Volt drop etc was in accordance with BS7671.


The installer therefore came round on Tuesday, and plugged this device into the plug socket which the heater was previously plugged into (before the plug melted). He took a reading of the impedance and explained that the low value means that installing the heater onto the ring main would be fine. Does this satisfy the tests that Dimplex mentioned?


He then proceeded to change the plug socket to a 20A DP switch, and connected it to a 16A timer which was installed beside it. This timer was then connected to the off-peak element.


We left the timer on an “always on” state temporarily to test that everything was working as expected, however after a few hours I noticed that the heater was blowing out cold air. All of the lights were on (on the 20A DP switch, and the timer), indicating that both new outlets were working, therefore I assumed that there was a lose/wrong connection between the timer and the heater. I switched the 20A switch off as I wasn’t going to be at home for a few days.


As you can imagine I was rather frustrated, thus I wrote a rather furious email back to the installer and demanded that these issues are rectified immediately. I also asked for written confirmation that the way in which the heater had been installed was safe and abiding to regulations. I therefore wanted them to accept liability if anything went wrong.


The installer replied and said that they would come and fit a dedicated wire from the fuse box to the room instead, all at their cost. They also said that they would hide the wire in trunking.


Fast forward to this weekend, when I turned the switch and timer back on and also factory reset the heater (I thought that if it was a charge problem, considering that the Quantum detects when it needs to charge and remembers when the electricity to the off-peak element is available and not, the factory reset would do the trick). I was surprised that the heater now worked as expected.


So now I am a bit unsure as to what to do. They have drilled a hole in the plasterboard to install the timer next to the 20A DP switch, so I don’t want a hole left there. At the same time, if there is any risk of danger in using the setup I currently have, I would rather them fit the dedicated wire and live with the annoyance of having a surface mounted wire extending from one end of the flat to the other, on my currently neat, clean and newly painted walls.


Advice would be much appreciated - they are scheduled to return to my flat next Saturday (12th March).


Many thanks in advance!
P.

 

[Octopus]

You need to get a 2nd opinion. This, all sounds wrong and I'll thought out

And fast

 

[davesparks]

In my opinion what they have done is unacceptable, and the fact they have offered to install the correct supply at their own cost suggests that they are aware that what they have done is unacceptable.
I would insist that they make good to all of the holes etc they have made, and route the cable in a manner which you find acceptable.

 

[UKMeterman]

Hi,
This stuff might help https://www.mkelectric.com/en-GB/Products/CM/PD/Egacornice/Pages/default.aspx it is coveing trunking, they also do a larger one that could take all your multimedia (computer cables)

 

[bigp26]

Hello all - hope everybody is having a grand weekend so far!


So I've just had the installers leave (2 of them this time, one who was obviously much more competent and experienced that the chap who attempted to install the heater twice with not much luck).


What they have now suggested, is that the heater in the bedroom is changed from the QM150 (3.3kW) to a QM125 (2.7kW) - obviously at their cost.


The more experienced installer did point out to his colleague that the 20A DP switch should not have been connected to the ring main, as the ring main was protected by a 32A MCB (and therefore the heater was not protected to 16A as it should be).


He said that considering that the current draw for the QM125 would be less than 13A, it would be appropriate, safe and abiding to regulations (he said that electrical testing would pass, should I require this in the future for renting out etc.), for the off-peak element to be connected to a 13A fused spur (connect to the ring main), via a 16A rated timer.


How does this sound to you guys? If you feel that there still needs to be a dedicated circuit, I'll give these guys a call back on Monday and tell them I am not interested in their suggestion.


Many thanks again for all of you that have helped out with this over the past few weeks. It's so impressive and touching that so many people are willing to take a little bit of time out of their day to help me out with this.

Although I am starting to understand the basics, it really does help having you all support my efforts to ensure that the installation is carried out in the correct manner, ultimately leading to me and my family's safety!


Kindest regards,
P

 

[Octopus]

My only comment is that the "timer" could be changed and therefore the tenant could use day rate electricity to heat the storage heater.

Is does sound like the installers have improved the situation

 

[bigp26]

My only comment is that the "timer" could be changed and therefore the tenant could use day rate electricity to heat the storage heater.

Is does sound like the installers have improved the situation

Many thanks for the speedy reply Murdoch!

Glad to hear that you feel that the situation has been improved - does give me much more comfort.

Agreed that the timer can be changed, however for now I am living at the flat and therefore am aware of how the timer will need to work. Down the line, yes, tenants would need to also understand this (n.b. the main reason I mentioned renting out is due to the fact that I understand electrical testing would need to occur - which I don't want a risk of failing with the setup that they have suggested).

Thanks again,
P

 

[Octopus]

Many thanks for the speedy reply Murdoch!

Glad to hear that you feel that the situation has been improved - does give me much more comfort.

Agreed that the timer can be changed, however for now I am living at the flat and therefore am aware of how the timer will need to work. Down the line, yes, tenants would need to also understand this (n.b. the main reason I mentioned renting out is due to the fact that I understand electrical testing would need to occur - which I don't want a risk of failing with the setup that they have suggested).

Thanks again,
P

What certificate(s) have the installers provided?

 

[bigp26]

What certificate(s) have the installers provided?

No certificates have been provided...I didn't realise I needed one to be honest....

What should they have provided. Do I need to request one?

Cheers

 

[davesparks]

I wouldn't accept it personally, the regs suggest that significant space heating loads (those over 2kW) should not be connected to a ring circuit