Distribution at a Caravan Park

[SYKRAPS]

HI,

I reaslise that this subject does cause some conflicting opinions but I would like to ask a question to some more experienced guys in this matter regarding the distribution around a Caravan Park.

At the park in question I have been asked to cost for upgrades and possible extensive re-wiring due to a potential massive change in the park layout, but as of yet I have not gained access to the distribution area as it is under lock and key and some nugget has lost the key. I suspect that the park is installed wrong as TN-C-S as there is not an earth rod to be seen throughout the site (this is still to be proved).

My thoughts for the the hook ups is to wire them in groups of 4 with a double length earth rod per group of 4 at the last hook up and then to wire these back to an external distribution point which will serve 6 sets of 4 hook ups with again a double length earth rod and to devorce the DNO earth at the external distribution point so basically just TT the hook ups and the external distribution points.

My 1st question would be whether anyone can provide a link or product code for a suitable external distribution enclosure that will be pre constructed.

My 2nd question would be if you had the choice of re-wiring the positions would you use standard SWA or Split Concentric cable, I have been led to believe that with Split Concentric there is a financial saving and its easier to work (I have never used it myself). Both options would be ducted btw.

My 3rd question is would you fit a time delayed RCD unit in the origin DB or in each of the external distribution points, I am leaning towards the later so that in the event of a fault in one of the vans less people are inconvenienced.

I should perhaps also point out that 16a 30ma DP isolation will be present at each hook up for the 16a socket outlet, I have found these pre constructed for around £50 + VAT with internal metering (can anyone beat this).

Cheers Guys in advance.

 

[markc123]

WHAT? You sure about that comment? I've worked on loads of caravan sites and the majority are TNCS/TT installs. If it's changed somebody better tell the Caravan/Camping & Caravanning club PDQ

I think we're maybe on about different things here, i may have misread the OP? I've been talking about static caravan parks, i've not really ever touched the traditonal caravan park so wouldn't be able to comment, every park ive come accross though has been TNS, ive never seen TT....although TT is acceptable.

 

[SYKRAPS]

I think we're maybe on about different things here, i may have misread the OP? I've been talking about static caravan parks, i've not really ever touched the traditonal caravan park so wouldn't be able to comment, every park ive come accross though has been TNS, ive never seen TT....although TT is acceptable.

I think the rega are the same for both types of caravan pak both static and touring?

 

[loz]

simple, tnc-s into a main db, tnc-s earth isolated, if single phase a time delay 100mA rcd if three phase a 60947-2, time delay mmcb/rcd (abb ones are really good, have a range of operating currents, tripping currents, and time delay settings) feeding fuse carriers or mcbs, (generally 63a supply permitting) then swa cable to up to 6 connection units(16A) or 4 connection units (32A) each connection unit should have a 30mA rcd and appropriate mcb per socket, or a 30mA rcbo per socket. If the site is indeed tn-s disregard the need for any form of rcd in the distribution panel and supply the sockets with tn-s earth, however if using this method use bs88 or B type mcb's as they give a higher maximum permitted Zs value compared to c type mcb's to achieve 5s disconnection times. Have used these guys for connection units and distribution panels and have found their gear really good quality however occasionally a tad expensive.

 

[Engineer54]

I think the rega are the same for both types of caravan pak both static and touring?

I believe you can have a PME supply to a Static caravan. I'm sure someone posted something official up, that classified a static caravan (mobile home) as being classed as a permanent structure!! So the Reg's can't be the same in this instance!!

 

[markc123]

The supply to the pitch is the same, caravan parks in general is a grey area really...........mobile homes, leisure accommodation vehicle, motor caravan....all defined differently in the regs.

Here's abit of trivia for you guys, and ive had this out with elecsa before..........and i suppose theres no right or wrong answer really, but...

Example....

A static caravan moves from one pitch to another pitch within the same park...lets for the examples sake say 'plot 1' and 'plot 2'

Do you write an installation cert for this? or a EICR? (testing the actual static caravan)

Technically an EICR...its not a new installation, you're testing everything thats been tested before on plot 1, but its now on plot 2. The previous test certs and the ones that will be held in the site office are for that caravan but on plot 1 and not plot 2. So surely its an installation cert.......because its new to plot 2, even though the fabric of the lesiure accommodation vehicle is not new.

And writing out a full EICR for something that has 2circuits the majority of the time, an RCD, 32a and a 6a in the industrys cheapest cu in something that can measure as little as 28x10 is a little extreme.

Oh i love a grey area.

 

[gnselectricals]

Caravan park Electricals for all switchgear etc, no connection with them other than have used them previously. Was getting pitch supply boxes for £42 +VAT but was buying 100 a time. They will also fabricate to your design/input

 

[SYKRAPS]

I believe you can have a PME supply to a Static caravan. I'm sure someone posted something official up, that classified a static caravan (mobile home) as being classed as a permanent structure!! So the Reg's can't be the same in this instance!!

But they have wheels and can be moved around a site or from site to site, and a towing point..............

 

[markc123]

But they have wheels and can be moved around a site or from site to site, and a towing point..............

True, but i know of a old Tudor caravan that has been on the same plot for 24years now.

Alot of caravans move regulary, especially on the main parks...park resorts, bourne leisure ect... where they move them around for fun.

You can now get twin-unit caravans (lodges), that are built together on site (2 caravans pushed together) that aren't intended to be moved, they come with washing machines built in ect... and now 90% of caravan parks, especially around yorkshire have been given a full 52week a year licence, so people are buying these and selling their homes and moving into them permenantly and not just using them for holiday homes.

Static caravan's, especially privatley owned caravans are becoming homes nowadays....so in this case, i would class them as a permanent structure aswell.

Caravan park's just for static caravans are becoming more and more like little villages.

 

[MDJ]

ooh mark what you class as a permanent structure and what the men in suits at the IEE class as permanent structures are 2 different things, however have a look at 717.411.4, and see how you interpet that, and then look at 708.411.4.

 

[richy3333]

I guess the DNO will have a lot to say here. If they consider the 'unit' a permanent structure then they will allow PME. We have a lot of 'sheds' in these parts. But the term shed isn't what 99% of the population would consider a shed. It's up to the DNO if they will consider it a permanent structure and allow PME

 

[markc123]

ooh mark what you class as a permanent structure and what the men in suits at the IEE class as permanent structures are 2 different things, however have a look at 717.411.4, and see how you interpet that, and then look at 708.411.4.

To be fair in my ignorance ive never really read section717 as regards to static caravan's...as every static ive hooked up has had the intentions of being permenant....whether it was years after i left remains to be seen.

Its an interesting one, the whole caravan scene needs clearing up as regards regs because they're seem to be regs that contradict themselfs....whether thats just me ready wrongly.

708.411.4 prohibits the use of PME in a leisure accommodation vehicle....every caravan manufacturer (abi, delta, willerby ect...) class static caravan's as leisure accommodation vehicles, then whoever buys the caravan decides whether its going to be permenant or not. Ive recently hooked-up and tested a new 2012 lilac lodge, which clearly states in the manufacturers instructions and on the production line testing cert that its a leisure accommodation vehicle, but its designed in 2 halves with a plastic sheet protecting the interior untill its sited on base.........717 is about transporatble units, well in this case for that caravan its only intended to be transported once...is that still classed as transportable?

Suppose its up to the inspector at the time as to what regulation applys. Common sense required. Thanks for making me more aware of 717 though.

 

[SYKRAPS]

I think that they have to be classed as portable as far as their caravan site regs go to make them property tax exempt, but maybe I am mistaken.

But wheels and jacking points means portable in my book...........

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[SYKRAPS]

Wheels and jacking points suggests portable to me, and being situated on leisure parks suggests leisure accommodation.

And certainly on the bigger static sites the vans are moved quite often as they want the plusher ones in the forefront to entise people to buy one.

 

[Engineer54]

Wheels and jacking points suggests portable to me, and being situated on leisure parks suggests leisure accommodation.

And certainly on the bigger static sites the vans are moved quite often as they want the plusher ones in the forefront to entise people to buy one.

It's all about council tax classification and more to the point evasion etc, than anything else is my guess!! lol!!

But it seems the fact remains, these bigger mobile homes come under the umbrella of being permanent structures. The DNO's would only be interested in the main supply to the site, rather than the individual pitches, as these sites normally provide the power and the metering facilities to these pitches....

 

[SYKRAPS]

It's all about council tax classification and more to the point evasion etc, than anything else is my guess!! lol!!

But it seems the fact remains, these bigger mobile homes come under the umbrella of being permanent structures. The DNO's would only be interested in the main supply to the site, rather than the individual pitches, as these sites normally provide the power and the metering facilities to these pitches....

So in the instance of the bigger static vans that are more permanent would you consider PME? I don't see how you could consider PME to be honest.