Distribution circuits in apartment block

[dspears1982]

Hi all,

First time poster here, albeit long time lurker.

I could do with some opinions on running distribution circuits around and through the building voids of an apartment block. The project is an old police station being converted into flats. The bloke from the private DNO approved company came out today to discuss getting a new main into the building. The building layout is such that there are 3 different communal hallways and one lobby area that was being reserved as a plant room to install all the meters. This lobby area is not directly accessible to two of the communal hallways.

In other words, the distribution circuits from kmf to comsumer unit would have to run above mf ceilings for other flats to get to the destination flat. Hope that makes sense.

The DNO bloke is saying that he can't put one big ryefield in the lobby because that would mean running power through a flat that it's not intended for. He's suggesting make multiple connections in the street and bring power into the building in multiple locations at great cost for the owner.

Just to be clear, this is NOT a BNO installation, it would be ryefield - red link cut out - meter - metclad kmf - swa to consumer unit. So it would be us installing the everything downstream of the meter and would therefore fall under BS7671.

As far as I'm aware, there is nothing in BS7671 prohibiting running a supply for one flat through another and I believe we would be ok for building regs as long as there is proper fire stopping etc..

So, my question, is there anything I have overlooked or just got plain wrong? No idea why the DNO would have any concern about our installation tbh, it's not really anything to do with him but I don't want to start arguing the ---- and then realise I was wrong. Any thoughts are more than welcome.

Thanks, DS1982

 

[PS Electrics]

A similar question to this came up 8 years ago.

"You will probably need to look outside bs7671 for your answer to this as it only deals with matters of electrical safety rather than ownership and access to equipment" davesparks 2016 in reply to a similar question.

I totally agree with davesparks, here it is likely to be a leasehold contractual problem to be dealt with if the flats are sold off individually to separate entities.

For this reason you should avoid running services to flats through other flats where ever possible.

If you cannot then I suggest the owner talks to the solicitor creating the leaseholds for these flats if there need to be clauses for access and easements for services run in other flats.

 

[dspears1982]

A similar question to this came up 8 years ago.

"You will probably need to look outside bs7671 for your answer to this as it only deals with matters of electrical safety rather than ownership and access to equipment" davesparks 2016 in reply to a similar question.

I totally agree with davesparks, here it is likely to be a leasehold contractual problem to be dealt with if the flats are sold off individually to separate entities.

For this reason you should avoid running services to flats through other flats where ever possible.

If you cannot then I suggest the owner talks to the solicitor creating the leaseholds for these flats if there need to be clauses for access and easements for services run in other flats.

Ahh, ok ownership of leaseholds is not something I considered.

This block won't be having individual leases sold, it's intended for lifelong rental, no doubt they could be sold individually when the landlord is long gone I suppose.

In the case of this block, avoiding the voids of other flats would require multiple meter locations and multiple network connections and the building of an outdoor plant room, all at considerable cost to the landlord.

Would you say the issue you described is large enough to offset those costs? Just genuinely interested in what other people's opinions are on this. I will search the thread you suggested also.

Thank you.

 

[UNG]

If a sub main failed how would you repair it

 

[dspears1982]

If a sub main failed how would you repair it

It's a valid point, I would say that an swa cable 500mm above an mf ceiling in a rented flat would be very unlikely to suffer any damage but it's definitely a possibility.

On the other hand, the cables will be concealed within the fabric of the building regardless of whether above someone's flat or above a hallway. The result would be the same, having to cut the ceiling open for repair, it's just whether it's done in a hallway or arranging with the tenant to work in the flat.

I don't doubt the practical issues this could cause, and I know it's far from ideal, I just know that unless I have a compelling reason to avoid it, like contravening building regs etc. then the landlord will want it done this way.

Thanks.

 

[PS Electrics]

Ahh, ok ownership of leaseholds is not something I considered.

This block won't be having individual leases sold, it's intended for lifelong rental, no doubt they could be sold individually when the landlord is long gone I suppose.

Should make it a easier then just a clause in the rental agreement that covers the possible requirement for access. Probably most rental agreements already allow for that.

In the case of this block, avoiding the voids of other flats would require multiple meter locations and multiple network connections and the building of an outdoor plant room, all at considerable cost to the landlord.

Would you say the issue you described is large enough to offset those costs? Just genuinely interested in what other people's opinions are on this. I will search the thread you suggested also.

Thank

No, more of an issue if Leaseholds were being sold, if the landlord is retaining overall ownership with individual flat rental agreements then I would consider it a lot less of an issue.

 

[dspears1982]

Should make it a easier then just a clause in the rental agreement that covers the possible requirement for access. Probably most rental agreements already allow for that.



No, more of an issue if Leaseholds were being sold, if the landlord is retaining overall ownership with individual flat rental agreements then I would consider it a lot less of an issue.

I tend to agree. If it's only an issue of access then it's a no brainer I think. Thanks for taking the time to answer mate. I appreciate it.

 

[PS Electrics]

I tend to agree. If it's only an issue of access then it's a no brainer I think. Thanks for taking the time to answer mate. I appreciate it.

The issue of access must not be taken lightly though

The owner needs to be aware of the potential problems that could arise if like UNG said a sub main failed.

By avoiding the up front costs there would be costs involved if something went wrong. You could have unhappy tenants if power restoration was delayed if access was problematic (Tenant away for instance). Insurance might not cover it and if it got to the stage it required alternative accommodation then it could get costly.

Owner has to make the call based on risk cost analysis.

 

[westward10]

Keep the distribution circuits to the communal areas even if this means more than one source of supply the cost is not your problem. Any future works is then limited to areas outside of the dwellings and whilst this maybe inconvenient residents are not directly affected.

 

[brianmoooore]

If you cannot then I suggest the owner talks to the solicitor creating the leaseholds for these flats if there need to be clauses for access and easements for services run in other flats.

Written in clauses are essential, but should be fairly standard fare to a solicitor.
A similar situation exists around where I live with regard to water service pipes, some of which can be over a mile long. My own service pipe runs under my land and that of another farmer. My neighbour's pipe runs under land owned by four different individuals, of which I'm one. It's all taken care of by covenants written into the deeds.