DNOs and G83 limit

[TedM]

Guys, can I ask you all to reply to this thread with details for each DNO that you have had dealings with and their approach regarding the G83 16A limit - plus any info if you have seen that this has changed over time.

The ENA have confirmed that the correct value to use for the G83 limit is the inverter output figure and NOT the kWp for the panels but I have heard that some DNOs are using the wrong value. So I'd like to gather the info of who is doing what.

I will use this to go back to the ENA in order to find a way to get all DNOs to work on the same, correct, basis.

This is going to become more important as it appears DNOs (I've heard of SSE and WPD) that are now strictly enforcing the 16A limit and requiring anything larger to be handled under G59 - with associated cost implications.

 

[edexlab]

Central Networks are now officially basing the limit on inverter output ,I spoke to one of they're senior Engineers after I read a post by JC/DC and was told different versions by 2 of their G83 admin staff
I suggested that instead of keeping changes to applications quiet that everyone would benefit from a webpage stating the facts

Also received a customer satisfaction call, ie were you satisfied/dissatisfied etc and they scored very low with me the girl was surprised and said they had never had a company critisicised so much just hope somebody takes note

 

[SRE]

Electricity Northwest are using inverter output and have been since we started installing in October.

ScottishPower are a bit challenging, they were fine over the phone and agreed the inverter output but have now sent me a letter after I sent the G83 in saying that an engineer will be in touch to discuss any issues before installation. Bit late, G83 clearly dientifies installation 2 weeks ago Fortunately I emailed confirmation of their telephone conversation to them in January.

 

[claypole]

NOT an installer, but my installer insists that Central Networks only interested in array size. I'm in area 11 East Midlands. He was communicating with Glyn Cartlidge at Castle Donington, and after my provision of various documentary eveidence (I don't know if he passed the documents on to CN) the same answer was coming back, nothing matters but array size. I think last contact may have been beginning of last week so maybe policy changed since then? 3.92kwp array has now been approved under G83/1. I would prefer it to be on Inverter output (4kw) so that I can extend array next year without worrying about connection.

 

[JulianC]

In my own experience, over the last 6 months, Central Networks have gone from inverter output, to array size and back to inverter output. It seemed to depend on who was opening the email at the other end as to which method was used. Seems to have settled (correctly) on inverter output at the moment.

I haven't checked on any discretion allowed in going over the 16A limit but an ex-colleague was told last Autumn quite categorically that anything over 16A came under G59 and no leeway would be allowed

 

[SolarCity]

Just to add to what has already been said, Central Networks now work off inverter output in all my dealings with them.

 

[edexlab]

NOT an installer, but my installer insists that Central Networks only interested in array size. I'm in area 11 East Midlands. He was communicating with Glyn Cartlidge at Castle Donington, and after my provision of various documentary eveidence (I don't know if he passed the documents on to CN) the same answer was coming back, nothing matters but array size. I think last contact may have been beginning of last week so maybe policy changed since then? 3.92kwp array has now been approved under G83/1. I would prefer it to be on Inverter output (4kw) so that I can extend array next year without worrying about connection.

It was Glyn Cartledge I spoke to on weds of last week

 

[solarfred]

UK Power Networks confirm in writing that a G83/1 inverter is a solution for them. They have no interest in what is on the roof.

 

[TedM]

Thanks for all the replies so far. More welcome.

I have been told that G83 issues are now on the agenda for discussion at the next meeting of the Distribution Code Review Panel.

After a bit of digging around I have discovered that the original draft of the ESQCRs had proposed a 5kW threshold rather than 16A.

 

[DomB]

I spoke to UK Power Networks today and they not only said it was the inverter output they're interested in but that they've changed to calculating their 16A over 240V (instead of 230) so we can install 3.84kW under G83.

 

[solarfred]

Absolutely correct! I was told the same thing. However you can "install" 4kw if you want so long as the inverter is rated G83/1 therefore restricted to 16amps. DNC is 3840w. But who knows in this current market.

 

[Noshocks]

I was told by another installer I sub for that the DNO he deals with has told him that form the 1st April there will be a £250 charge for all presubmissions over 16amp, I cant remembre if its Eon or Southern electric though.

 

[JulianC]

Oh, before I forget - heard a rumour recently from a relatively reliable source that at some point this year G83 is going to be extended up to 17kW per phase. Treat this for what it is - just a rumour. Be interesting to see if it comes off though.

 

[TedM]

I was told by another installer I sub for that the DNO he deals with has told him that form the 1st April there will be a £250 charge for all presubmissions over 16amp, I cant remembre if its Eon or Southern electric though.

OFGEM wrote to all DNOs just last November to remind them that they are not allowed to charge any upfront fees for connections - including distributed generation. http://www.ofgem.gov.uk/Networks/Co...ts1/upfront charges letter final Nov 2010.pdf

I'm not 100% certain but I don't think this has been changed by any new legislation in the meantime.

 

[claypole]

Absolutely correct! I was told the same thing. However you can "install" 4kw if you want so long as the inverter is rated G83/1 therefore restricted to 16amps. DNC is 3840w. But who knows in this current market.

Don't want to hijack this sensible thread but I feel it's important to highlight that an inverter may be G83/1 certified but still rate higher than 16A. The relaxation to allow post notification of connection requires that the system output is no higher than 16A AND that the inverter is G83/1 compliant, which needs to satisfy various other parameters. If anyone wishes to dispute this can I suggest a 1 line reply linking to a new thread so that we can keep this one for Ted's intended purpose.